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Spain to deploy police to prevent Catalonia's Independence Vote


Crow
9 Oct 2017  #61

Interesting, Serbia`s moral and diplomatic influence reaching new heights. Serbia to postpone humiliation of EU, in order not to complicate to Spain.

Vucic says Madrid asked Serbia to send letter to EU "later"
b92/eng/news/politics.php?yyyy=2017&mm=10&dd=09&nav_id=102507

s

President Vucic (on the right, when you look at the picture)

According to previous announcements, the letter concerns EU's reaction to the Catalan referendum, and the stance that the cases Catalonia and Kosovo are not comparable, "because Spain is a member of the EU."

"Spain is our great friend, we listened to its request"
b92/eng/news/politics.php?yyyy=2017&mm=10&dd=09&nav_id=102510

s

PM Brnabic

Spain is our great friend and partner, we also had great support from them for (preventing Pristina's membership in) both Interpol, UNESCO, and (Serbia's) European integration, so we will decide, in cooperation with them, how to proceed," said Brnabic.


johnny reb
25 Oct 2017  #62

**** knows why the Mods moved this important thread about police brutality in the European Union Roger,

Have to agree with you on this one Doug.
It really doesn't matter who's side you are on.
You will start seeing this spread world wide in the next decade is my prediction.
People are fed up with these control freaks.
And we all know that the deep rooted authority will not go down without a fight.
Like Doug said, this is a very important thread as it will eventually effect all of us world wide now that Catalonia has the ball rolling.

mafketis
25 Oct 2017  #63

now that Catalonia has the ball rolling.

What do you know about Catalonia and Spain? Imagine a US state government (where the idea of leaving the US had never polled above 50%) said "Ferk the constitution! we're holding an independence referendum!" would you support them? if yes, why? if not, why not?

Dirk diggler
25 Oct 2017  #64

Well maf, the problem is there are specifics spelled out if a territory wants to become a state and a part of the US, but not the opposite - meaning there's nothing written in US constitutional law that lays out the process of a state leaving the US.

TheOther
25 Oct 2017  #65

there's nothing written in US constitutional law that lays out the process of a state leaving the US.

Nothing in the constitution, but there are still several ways out such as revolution, consent of the other states, or failure of the USA as a nation:

"Some have argued for secession as a constitutional right and others as from a natural right of revolution. In Texas v. White, the United States Supreme Court ruled unilateral secession unconstitutional, while commenting that revolution or consent of the States could lead to a successful secession."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secession_in_the_United_States

washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/06/27/so-you-want-to-secede-from-the-u-s-a-four-step-guide/?utm_term=.ad6512c19daa

johnny reb
26 Oct 2017  #66

What do you know about Catalonia and Spain?

I read the same American newspapers that you do, why do you ask such silly question ?

Rajoy is testing the untested powers of Article 155 of Spain's 1978 Constitution to try to impose central government control on Catalonia.
His aim is to trigger regional elections within six months.
Madrid is making a significance mistake here.
First, you don't need to be a genius to see that Rajoy forcibly taking control over Catalonia's civil society will only make the independence movement grow stronger with passion and numbers.

Second, does Rajoy really think he's going to be able to make this happen without huge amounts of civil unrest ?
I don't think so.
Now please you tell us what you know bout Catalonia and Spain mafketis.

mafketis
26 Oct 2017  #67

I read the same American newspapers that you do, why do you ask such silly question ?

I don't read US papers (why would I?) But I can read Spanish, in 1978 just over 95 % of those voting approved the Spanish constitution (under which the October 1 referendum was illegal). That 95% of those voting was also over 60% of all eligible voters. That is a strong democratic commitment (better than just any election in the US I know of).

Now just under 40 years later using vague rhetoric about 'self-determination' and oppression from the central government (which they can give no real examples of) the local government is trying to claim independence even though no independent, anonymous poll has ever shown 50% support for the idea.

What's really happening is, the independistes (who've always been around - a noisy minority) were strengthened during the worst years of the economic crisis but in the last year or so the economy has begun to improve and the numbers in favor of independence started to shrink. They realized it's now or never for the independence putsch and they found a willing accomplice in Putin who sill support any cause that discredits democracy, the rule of law or the EU.

If Catalonia were to 'achieve' independence in spite of the lack of a majority being in favor then it would be forced out of the EU (independence leaders have lied to the public for years) and forced out of the Euro (within about three months they'd have to find another currency) and face massive capital loss as businesses that wanted access to the EU would relocate to Spain.

Rajoy has been given the green light by EU leaders to deal with the situation and so far he's shown restraint (within the Spanish context) an adult dealing with noisy entitled infants.

There is no legal or ethical or practical reason supporting independence unless the notoriously corrupt local government wants to use the event to rob the country blind (at least two major Catalan political leaders, including the father of the modern independence movement have been caught out of secret bank accounts)

johnny reb
27 Oct 2017  #68

BARCELONA/MADRID, Oct 27 (Reuters) - Catalonia's parliament declared independence from Spain on Friday in defiance of the Madrid government, which at the same time was preparing to impose direct rule over the region.

Let's see what happens now.................

dolnoslask
27 Oct 2017  #69

They upped the anti with direct rule

BREAKING NEWS: Madrid imposes direct rule on Catalonia just 40 minutes after the region FINALLY declared independence as Spanish Prime Minister calls for 'calm' amid fears of violence on streets

Read more:dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5023203/Catalonia-explode-violence-Madrid-imposes-rule.html#ixzz4wifqcGP8
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

HaHa This will keep Meddling Her Merkel and Junker, and that frog bloke busy, they may leave Poland in peace for a while.

Dirk diggler
27 Oct 2017  #70

This will keep Meddling Her Merkel and Junker, and that frog bloke busy, they may leave Poland in peace for a while.

I doubt it... they'll be back telling us what to do within our sovereign borders in no time... just as they've done to Hungary and his extremely popular Fidesz party.

The problem is though they really can't quite figure out what to do. They can't force migrants on us, they've given up on finding, they've threatened the 'nuclear' option of suspending our votes which would require unanimous voting which they won't get... so they're pretty much screwed...And if we left they'd lose the hundreds of billions they've poured into our infrastructure and wouldn't be able to recoup the money as we're just now gradually going from payee to payer.

I really wonder how this whole Catalonia thing will play out. I predict police, soldiers, and tanks vs seperatists and indirect support from pro-independence movements and Emperor Putin.

dolnoslask
27 Oct 2017  #71

.And if we left they'd lose the hundreds of billions they've poured into our infrastructure

This could be a good plan for a future Polexit (when the time is right for Poland) No money to payback if we are booted out of the lefty only club.

Crnogorac3
27 Oct 2017  #72

youtube.com/watch?v=wouNL14tAks

Crnogorac3
27 Oct 2017  #73

Well that is your old school example of propaganda ...

Pay attention to this music that is heard in the background, which has as its aim to increase the impression and awaken the emotion of an average person - to hit his emotional part of the brain, and to supress the logical one, that is, for him to be carried away by emotions...

so that he falls for that black-and-white story-type, ones are the aggressors,
and others are supposedly the victims and those who suffer.

And all this is absolutely irrelevant ... those who are pulling the strings (we know who they are!)
they blew it in Ukraine, Syria, throughout the Middle East,
and now they will try to light the fire in Spain,
next in order is Poland ie. Slask, etc. etc. wherever they can!

Crow
27 Oct 2017  #74

Ironically. Catalans deserve to be independent and Kosovo Albanians do not. Catalans are Europeans and natives on their land. Albanians are non-European newcomers and national minority in state formed by another people. Catalans never used terrorist for their aims of independence. Kosovo Albanians used terrorism.

TheOther
28 Oct 2017  #75

Catalans deserve to be independent and Kosovo Albanians do not.

How about Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro and Macedonia then? You're okay with their independence? If every region would be allowed to become independent all of sudden, we would be back to the Middle Ages before you know it.

Crow
28 Oct 2017  #76

Croatia, Bosnia, Herzegovina and Montenegro are all one and same people as people of Serbia. They are all Serbs. But not only that world power didn`t like to see united Serbs but certain powers actually stimulated processes of deeper weakening of those who still feel strongly Serbian. So multiple ethno and cultural genocides happened on Serbs in last 400 years and more and more Serbs was transferred into another newly emerging nations. I say newly emerging because they still aren`t consolidated as new nations- Croatia, Bosnia, Herzegovina and Montenegro. Many people there that resist to final destruction of Serbs in them, to the level that things could be reversed.

What I want to tell you, it would be what world powers want. Historically, ethnically, genetically if you want they are all Serbs. What would they be depend on world powers. Not on people there, not on Serbia. We are merely pawns.

Macedonia? Its different case. They, same as for example Ukrainians, even more, have unique local characteristics. We Serbs liberated them from Turks and protected from Bulgarians and Greeks. Protected them even from ourselves. But what would happen to them also depend on world powers.

And, man, this isn`t discussion. I just gave info to you.

Crow
28 Oct 2017  #77

Comment of Serbia`s FM. Great lesson to the people of the world.

"Catalonia, same as Kosovo; but no big powers are behind it"
b92/eng/news/politics.php?yyyy=2017&mm=10&dd=27&nav_id=102669

"The path of Kosovo and Catalonia is the same, the only problem is that in this case, big powers do not support Catalonia, (while) in the case of Kosovo, the interest was different.

and another quote

It cannot be, that the world is based on whether big powers like us or not - it must be based on international law" - Dacic stressed.

Only now one can understand why Jan Lopuzansky back in 1999, leader of the Polish ultra right Catholics, in Polish parliament raised his voice in defense of Serbs when NATO attacked us. He said that ``NATO and world powers now deciding about Serbia, tomorrow they may deciding about Poland.``

Crnogorac3
28 Oct 2017  #78

youtube.com/watch?v=qJ1BuiIlzrc

Help Catalonia. Save Europe LIES

2

Crow
28 Oct 2017  #79

On this video you can see how Polish child cry, brutally beaten and molested by Polish police because child protested in solidarity with Serbia, because Kosovo Albanians unilaterally declared independence and seceded historically Serbian province.

Poland March for Serbian Kosovo

spot video from 0:37 >

youtube.com/watch?v=9oPqj6I4E1Q

Poles should think where Polish leading establishment leading them.

Dirk diggler
30 Oct 2017  #80

@Crow

Many Poles support Serbia's claim in Kosovo esp North Kosovo. Nonetheless the country has cast its die with NATO bc of the events with communism falling and all. Perhaps if the Russians treated poles better during and after ww2 we would be closer with the Byzantine peoples.

Dirk diggler
30 Oct 2017  #81

There is no Byzantene people

What I mean by Byzantines is the countries who mainly adopted Orthodoxy and a Cyrillic language. I'm not using it as a propaganda nor perjorative term.

Its rather that some NATO powers used NATO, for their particular interests, to deal with Serbs. That is essence of the story, rest is fiction for public.

Yup... what bothers me is how little assistance Russia offered to Serbia aside from political channels. They should've helped the Serbs with troops and hardware especially as Kosovo was about to break away.

Kosovo is pretty much lost though sorry Crow. The Alabnians are have the highest growth rates of Europeans because they have so many kids. Their birth rates are 3x higher than Serbs... It would be nice to at least get northern Kosovo back...

Also, correct me if I`m wrong but Poles also penetrated to Russians.

Yes in the 1600's. Part of the Russo-Swedish-Polish wars. Also, there were internal problems in Russia at the time with multiple contenders to the Tsarist throne - as was common throughout the world when monarchies were the main form of government.

Dirk diggler
31 Oct 2017  #82

Looks like Catalonia is getting no support from any EU nations or politicians... well that's only begging for Putin to intervene and take advantage = )

Crow
31 Oct 2017  #83

Too late not to let Catalonia go. Pandora`s box is opened with Kosovo.

Crow
2 Nov 2017  #84

well that's only begging for Putin to intervene and take advantage = )

No. Spain established strategic relations with Serbia. Putin won`t move finger against Spain.

Crow
2 Nov 2017  #85

@Dirk diggler

You know, some in Serbia believe that Anglos target to destroy great Catholic and Orthodox Christian states. Poland, included. And history often confirmed opinions of political circles in Serbia.

Dirk diggler
3 Nov 2017  #86

Well of course they do. The EU, the far left, the radical commies all want to create an internationalist globalist society with redistributed wealth, neutering of genders, elimination of borders, cultures, religion, and the traditional family unit... this is nothing new... They basically are adapting a neo-USSR strategy, with Russia doing a similar thing reviving the power of the USSR and Russia's current spheres of influence to a society but instead Russia's 'Make Russia Great Again' movement driven by patriotism, traditional values, conservatives, and Orthodoxy all at the center. The EU's is driven by uniting people under a far left quasi international socialist ideology. That is why I have respect for Putin - he's one of the few leaders who won't be cucked into blindly accepting this strange new liberalism that praises ideas which were historically considered taboo by Christian European society.

Crow
3 Nov 2017  #87

@Dirk diggler

I hope that under the pressure of Muslims and Protestants, Catholic and Orthodox Christianity may unite again. To tell you frankly, dobri brate, you know me virtually and you can believe me, I wouldn`t mind if Pope insist on his rule as condition for unity of Christianity. Why not? For us Serbs, at the same time Christians and people deeply devoted to Svetovid, its after all, all the same who rides us, western or eastern Romans. Romans are Romans and if one of them call himself a Pope, who am I to judge that.

Crow
6 Nov 2017  #88

EU is destined to injustice and failures. Just destined. EU directly intervened to support dissolution of Yugoslavia violating all positive UN charters regarding sovereignty of states, helping to Nazi and Wahhabi separatists, took part in enormous anti-Serbian propaganda that was unseen from the time of famous Nazi propagandist Goebels, collaborated with Islamic league and sponsored worse Arab mujaheedines, saluted use of all kind of forbidden weapons instigating crimes on people and nature, literally washed hands in blood of Yugoslavians, Serbians, Libyans, Ukrainians, Syrians.

And now Catalans. I sow interview of Catalan Agusti Masgoret who refused to compare Catalonia and Kosovo. He actually compared Catalonia with Serbia within Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian Empires (b92/info/vesti/tema.php?yyyy=2017&mm=11&nav_id=1322075), underlining Serbian rebellions for freedom what obviously awaits Catalans faced with ignorance of Spain and EU.

Sad for that EU. But, must be that we Europeans deserve exactly that. Or maybe not. Not all of us.

Dirk diggler
6 Nov 2017  #89

Too bad the Catalans don't have enough hardware to stage a half decent insurgency nor do they have the backing of any major actors. Although I predict Putin will help them in some ways bc it hurts the eu. I don't think he'll be sending hardware like he did to donbass, Ossetia etc.

This is why it's important for citizens to be armed. It's the only thing that prevents government from turning into a complete tyranny. One of the first actions of both the Nazis and the Russian bolsheviks/commies was to disarm the populace.

Either this will die out or Spain will clamp down and it will turn into some weird semi frozen local conflict between separatists and unionists.

Crow
6 Nov 2017  #90

It is just the natural law that freedom must be paid with the blood. Still, one would expect that modern-day humanity developed method to bypass this law. But, philosophical question remain, is this even possible to bypass this law. Plus, is there real freedom? What about law that every revolution eats its own children?

I would say, there are patriots and those who profit on them. That`s the annex to the all natural laws. Interestingly, both, the patriots and those who profit on them, have their reasons for freedom. It means that first law isn`t negated- `freedom must be paid with the blood`.

Let me tell you one thing, one may go crazy thinking of this. Fortunately, I am already crazy. I hope so. I don`t know.


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