Why AfD is the most important party in Germany

I wonder how much you and the other leftists here are being paid to spread your leftist bs about the countries you have only casual interest in. Like you in Poland.

Weimarer writes about HIS country and has every moral and legal right to oppose what he does not like. You and the others like you here know very well that he is right and that the facts he reports are true because they are verifiable.

So, what do you, leftists, do? Check the facts? Hell, no. You attack his motives and his character and, by that sneaky question, you insinuate that he is posting to make a buck rather than as a German patriot.

BTW, that question is an old debate trick right along with: "Did you quit beating your wife". Next time, try to be more creative.

It's incredibly interesting to see how these fantasies repeat themselves in different countries. There's always the claim that their view is a popular one, that things are much more extreme than that they actually are, and that to repeat the old IRA slogan - "our time will come". Yet when elections come, they consistently fail.

Weimarer is repeating the lowest-level exaggeration of the facts!

Even though I haven't lived in Berlin for years, I do have it on the authoritative sources of reliable German contacts who live
both in Berlin and Hamburg, that things are not quite as AfD supporters claim they are.

Certainly there are problems with scores of unassimilated foreigners thrown into a society without a traditional melting-pot culture such as the US. However demonzing the outsider is familiar European pastime, scarcely limited to Germany, and it's time it was addressed.....and stopped!

Yes, California, which used to be 90% white, with its 50% Latinos now is a real "fantasy". In fact, it is such as "fantasy" that the Californians are now running away from it and infecting Colorado and Texas after they f**cked up their own liberal haven.

Just as the West Germans are now moving to the East part they didn't have a chance to ruin just yet.

However demonzing the outsider is familiar European pastime, scarcely limited to Germany, and it's time it was addressed.....and stopped!...said Mr. Free Speech and a strict constitutionalist.

Yes, addressed.....and stopped Immediately, OR ELSE!!!

Yes, I am. Where's the problem?

Or else things will continue to spin out of control to a greater degree than is already the case, that's or else

Demonizing is speech, genius. How do you address and stop stop speech other than by the methods Hitler, Stalin, Mao and the UK have employed - by an oppressive hand of the state that includes fines and/or prison. Or would a gulag be better?

Tell me how you would like to "address and stop" free speech. I am all eyes.

It is not a question of "Demonising the outsider",Europe is far too lax at integrating immigrants.
The USA is much better at this,not perfect,but better.

A large percentage of Californians who are leaving now are either working or middle class. They simply cannot afford to live here any longer. Latinos/ Hispanics have almost nothing to do with it. People in Chicago and Philadelphia have some silly ideas about the West Coast.

That's true, Rich. One can't have things both ways. That is why integration is the only way!
:-)

No. There is a better way. Don't let the foreign garbage in.
All they do is bring the misery they created themselves at home. Only in the eyes of the morons like Merkel, migrants are Ph.D., doctors, and engineers.

There you go again.

And this from an immigrant!

Easier said than done.

Of course that sounds ideal, yet doubtless next to impossible to implement successfully.

I never claimed that we can expel every single one.
The problem is that the stupid whites not only are not trying. They actual INVITE the foreign garbage nobody wants, shower them with goodies, and, at least in Europe, punish the locals who don't find it funny enough.

Once and for all: my immigration has nothing to do with the validity of my arguments. If that concept is too hard to grasp, try this: an alcoholic can argue against drinking as evil while finishing a bottle of vodka and still claim that his arguments about drinking are correct.

"...stupid (libitard) whites", is whom you mean, right?

Wish it were this simple. The so-called conservatives and Republicans, including Trump, are not that much better.

It doesnt matter what leftist think. Just look here how they shake theit little hands in anger. The fact alone that the far right established itself in strong numbers and destroyed their utopia is good enough.

The last thing they have is saying that far right is not strong....meanwhile their beloved Merkel pays libyan warlords to keep african migrants in concentration camps and sells automatic weapon systems to turkey that shots at syrians at the border.

But hey, that 180 degree change in politics got nothing to do with the rise of the far right. Its mad cow disease, or planet constellations. Eastern Germany will become as much ******** as west germany!!! Even so, the already low numbers of migrants there continue to sink towards zero. But hey, who cares about facts? Leftists are brainless anyways.

But unlike the SED, that policy actually enjoys broad support. Even in East Germany, 80% of the people vote for the parties that do not promise a general change in the refugee policy.

We are currently facing a situation similar to the establishment of the FRG. Back then there were quite a bit of people who were dissatisfied with democracy and tried to prevent Germany to become a fully mature liberal society. Some even resorted to violence. They failed because most of the Germans disagreed with them. The same will happen with AfD sympathizers. They are losing and they know it, hence the insults and the screaming.

Then why HAS the refugee policy changed already so much since 2015?

Because it was so broadly popular??? ;)

Do you remember how long the Greens needed to achieve the results of the AfD after 2015? Decades!!!

You can only hope they don't "lose" that way very much longer...

Has it though? There are now more restrictions to make it more practical and to get it better organized, but the principles of the asylum laws have not changed, contrary to what the AfD wanted. And since most Germans vote for parties that support those principles, they evidently do not want to abandom them.


Time is working against the AfD. With every year the refugee crisis fades into memory, and once Merkel retires they will have lost their uniting enemy. Adding to this is the growing awareness that populist movements like Trump and Brexit are ultimately hurting the people they claim to protect. So there are many reasons to be optimistic over the future.

See? Thats masterful policy...great changes and you didn't even get it!

Some changes:

Änderungen im Asylrecht 2015 (Asylpaket I)
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fl%C3%BCchtlingskrise_ab_2015_in_Deutschland#%C3%84nderungen_im_Asylrecht_2015_(Asylpaket_I)

Änderungen im Asylrecht 2016 (Asylpaket II)
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asylrecht_(Deutschland)#%C3%84nderungen_im_Asylrecht_2016_(Asylpaket_II)

The allowances for church asylum had been tightened so much that the cases are down to only a few cases anymore from several hundreds.
migazin.de/2019/03/06/druck-zeigt-wirkung-zahl-der-kirchenasyle-stark-zurueckgegangen/

We now have "Ankerzentren" Lager...

Right now in discussion:
- less money for refugees
- criminalization of Flüchtlingsräte and help to avoid deportations

Here in short an english summary:

rumoursaboutgermany.info/7-recent-changes-to-germanys-asylum-process/


Well...for those many for whose the unhappiness about the disorderly mass immigration was the main argument to vote for the AfD that would be good news.

Tightened asylum laws, a down trickle of incoming numbers (with abit of foreign help like the closed italian harbors for NGOs)...you can't say the AfD did not achieve anything. :)

Even CNN has given up on Merkel....


edition.cnn.com/2018/07/06/europe/angela-merkel-migration-germany-intl/index.html


I guess if really 80% of the german population had been soooo happy with things are run, why change a thing? And you know Merkel...she is the greatest opportunist, always swaying with the mood! :)


Optimism for a good future isn't necessarily dependent on the number of immigrants...not with the upcoming digital revolution!!

I already admitted that there have been new and necessaryregulations to make it more practical but the overall idea behind it (the right to claim asylum in Germany) has not changed, no matter what the AfD wants.


You are mixing two things up here. Just because people are not happy with how something is being implemented does not mean they are against the idea in priciples. Most Germans were not happy how things were managed in 2015, but that does mean that they were against taking in refugees in pricipal. Merkel adressed these concerns and most Germans decided to vote for parties that want to uphold the general refugee policy.


That is another point of criticism that will probably be revaluated in the future. Because that implies has a) no convictions and b) always took the easy, more popular way. However in hindsight it has become clear that neither are true.

Merkel is among things, commited to the European Union and to a close partnership with the USA. In both cases those convictions prevented her from taking the short, easy route. She could have used the NSA scandal to score some domestic points, or kicked Greece out of the Euro. Her commitment to Europe also influenced her decision in 2015, along with no doubt some Christian compassion she still has. That and her preference for multilateralism have shaped her policy decisions This is something that sets her apart from Trump, Savini and Kaszinsky. The latter don't really care how their actions impact the future of their countries, as long as they get a slight boost to her popularity. This is also those politicians will shape up poorly against her in a few years while evaluating their legacy.

Merkel has so far done one mayor policy reversal based on public opinion, the phase out of nuclear energy. And while I suspect that as a trained physicist Merkel can evaluate the safety concerns of nuclear energy (which are very few) and likely did not share the hysteria after Fukishima, it has also become clear at this point that the battle for nuclear energy was lost at this point. That is something also many people in the CDU acknowledged.

You also said that 80% were happy with how things are run...

It isn't about the existence of the asylum law... The principle of it never was the problem, it just stopped working in reality for all to see in 2015! If it would work as scripted all these current problems wouldn't exist and nobody would know a party called AfD...

99% of the current immigrants would have no chance to stay if the Law of Asylum would be used properly. Only 1% of all newcomers would be accepted.

That is a number even the AfD agrees with. THAT isn't the problem. The abuse of it by the 99% with the help of official and inofficial institutions and with it the proven loss of control by the state is the problem.


She didn't share it but she for sure did use it to swing with the mood and gain votes out of it. She suddenly was now all against nuclear energy, totally contrary to her former politics and convictions. You can't find a better example for her opportunism.

And do you know who has to pay the price? The small common households have to pay for it ever since with the enormous rising energy prices..


But....didn't you listen to Saint Greta recently? She isn't against nuclear energy at all...who knows, if that mood swings back again maybe new plants will be build.


Well, surely not 2015....that was totally unilateral by her. She never asked anybody, didn't care for other opinions...so excuse me if I take these promises of multilateralisms only with a big heap of salt!

They are obviously happy with the principles of our asylum policy, or else more than 15% of them would vote for the party that wants to fundamentally change things. As it stands now according to polls, more Germans consider voting for a party that wants to have a more open refugee policy (the Greens) than for the AfD. Do the math.


I think the current acceptance rate which is done by courts in accordance to those laws is around 40-50%.


It is also pretty much the only one. Merkel was never a fierce advocate of nuclear energy, so it would have been strange for her to take a stance on it when the public mood had so decisively turned against it. You can't force through a long-term project when polls state that a broad majority was against nuclear energy, and any incident around the world would be used against it. Germans are simply not rational when it comes to nuclear energy. I was in Chile in 2011 (much closer to Japan than Germany) and hardly anone cared, while Germans were buying Geiger Counters en masse.


That was actually quite funny, how many fans of her in Germany reacted to it. While I wish that the debate about nuclear energy was more rational, an recent interview in Der Spiegel with one of the last pro-nuclear energy lobbyst emphasized how unlikely this has become. Fukushima, Tschernobyl, Gorleben, those are the words you usually hear whenever you try to have an discussion about this. Nvm how many assumptions are deeply wrong (e.g. Tschernobyl caused at most 4000 additional cancer deaths, not millions) the mood is set, probably forever.


Not really. She was in direct talks with the Austrian chancellor, and had in the days previously talked with various politicians from the Balkans, including Orban. The myth of Merkel unilateral decision in 2015 will no doubt also be challenged in the future.

Are you kidding me?

Who needs the AfD if the Union does their job???

The numbers have fallen down from 700.000 to not even 200.000.

sueddeutsche.de/politik/asyl-migration-fluechtlinge-1.4299248

And that was also thanks to the implemention of new and the tightening of existing laws...200.000 with only about 35% of them going to be accepted...that is nearly NOTHING anymore!

Astounding, when you believe that 80% of the german people were happy with it and the AfD played no role whatsoever! :)


That's because that has nothing to do with our right of asylum as written once into our basic law...something not even the AfD complains about, because:

Grundgesetz für die Bundesrepublik Deutschland

Art 16a

(1) Politisch Verfolgte genießen Asylrecht.

gesetze-im-internet.de/gg/art_16a.html

99% are not, that you know as well as I do! Everybody does know this...99% are not hunted leaders of opposition parties in dictatorial regimes.

Nobody would have a problem with the 1%...hell...pack women and children additional to that....and even gays and true christians and disabled people and whatnot and most people still wouldn't have a problem with...say...5%.

But what happened in the recent years had nothing to do with it.


Interesting article in the FAZ:


faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/wirtschaftspolitik/fehler-von-angela-merkel-euro-krise-energiewende-fluechtlingskrise-15076075.html

The proof out of her own mouth: "Merkel sagt von sich selbst: "Mal bin ich liberal, mal bin ich konservativ, mal sozial."

She does that what she thinks will bring her votes...and it worked, till 2015...there she miscalulated and it did cost her!

PS: Some would call such a political behaviour "Populism", heh:)

They obviously were happy enough, or they would have voted for the AfD. And if they were not initially happy, they must be now or else the polls would be different.


Well, the 100ks of Syrian certainly qualify one way or another. None of them can be send back to Syria with good conscious.


As I pointed out earlier, this is simply not true. She did not do so during the NSA scandal, the Euro Crisis and the refugee crisis.

Oh please....after a recent survey 9 out of 10 Germans see the protection of the environment as most pressing task, the #1 problem!


handelsblatt.com/politik/deutschland/umfrage-handlungsbedarf-bei-klimaschutz-und-der-armutsbekaempfung/24170290.html?ticket=ST-3228986-QlWm5ocE3c5vYP4jGPWZ-ap3

That makes whopping 90% of the Germans!!! And how many vote for the Greens? Not so whopping 17% !

faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/groko-laut-sonntagsfrage-ohne-mehrheit-16116980.html

And the green party exists since 1979, since 40 years! AND they have all the support of the mainstream media AND are already well established and still the AfD is already in fighting distance with 13%, even without all the time and the media support behind it.....

Something in your argumentation doesn't work! ;)


Who should rebuild the country then?

Tacitus, Let's skip the links and the quotes. Are you, as a German patriot, better off with the refugees, and, if so, why?
If you are, how many is too many? Or, is there no limit? If you are unable to name that number, does such number exist?

So what are we even discussing about? Obviously Germans are happy enough that they do not see the refugee crisis as a pressing problem. Q.E.D. It also shows that the impact of the refugee crisis is fading and will inevitably lead to a weakening of the single-issue party AfD.


The AfD might be a new party, but they are drawing from already long existing currents within the population. A study from the early 2000s predicted that there was a potential for a far right-wing party within Germany that could reach up to 20%, just like in other European countries. People might have formeely voted for the CDU but anyone who salivates at the prospect of drowning refugees obviously never really identified with the CDU's values.


Which is not true btw. The Springer (with the highest distribution volume in Germany and even Europe) strongly opposes the Green party, as do other conservative outlets like the FAZ.

When 90% of interest amounts to 17% of votes, what are then 13%? 75%?

If there exist a problem for more than the half of the people...and in some regions even more....would you call that happiness with the Status Quo?


Agreed!

But I want your admission that this change is happening NOT because people are happy with how it was. That is illogical. That change happened and is still happening because millions of Germans were UNHAPPY with it and it made an extremist party big and influential enough to become a danger for the mainstream parties.

Come on, that can't be so hard! :)
(...and there is a nice evening waiting there outside for me:)

Germany has bought capitalism hook, line, and sinker! If she had her druthers, probably she would have eschewed the influx of massive non-European refugees.
Again though, the lure of cheap labor is a powerful aphrodisiac, afflicting both manager and business owner alike:-)