POLANDA : - powered by PolishForums Classifieds [67] Off-Topic [189]
489    

Off-Topicpage 2 of 17

After Brexit, Northern Ireland may obtain a special status in the EU



Bratwurst Boy
10 Aug 2018  #31

The more difficult the EU makes brexit the more they'll be making other countries nervous...

The ball is not in the EU's court.

The EU never stopped saying the same thing: "You will lose all your privileges if you decide to leave the union. It will cost you!"

She said it before the referendum, she said it during the referendum and of course keeps to it after the referendum.

It's the Brexiters who ignored all warnings and promised the Brits a cake walk...it's a case of: "You made your bed, now lie in it!"

But yes, the Brexit is serving as a stark warning. There are no other "exit"-party`s successful in any EU country, as far as I know.

mafketis
10 Aug 2018  #32

The Unionists will always put the block on anything helpful.

It's weird because there used to be almost no coverage of unionists (or unionist violence) whatsoever in the US, I personally never cared much about Northern Ireland (just wan't on my list of big world concerns) but after seeing Ian Paisley (sp?) on Sky TV a few times (after moving to Poland back in the early 1990s of course) I was strongly tempted to draw my life savings out of the bank so I could donate it to the IRA, perhaps the most toxic individual I've ever seen in any media.... brrrrr

, the Brexit is serving as a stark warning

EU EU uber alles.....
I'm far from an EU hater but its defenders on this forum could turn me into one.
What you're describing is a Franco-German hegemon and not a voluntary association of sovereign states

Bratwurst Boy
10 Aug 2018  #33

There never will be some beast of "Franco-German hegemon", France and Germany are like cat and dog, two totally different animals since the Romans conquered Gallia and Germania stayed free.

France and Germany are not natural friends, but natural rivals, enemies even.

Our cultures, values and temperaments differ wildly. Hence the many wars for hegemony in Europe, with GB playing the fence sitter and supporting the power which was just less dangerous to it's own position at the time (perfidious albion).

To chain France and Germany together through the EU is not only the guarantee for peace, both countries make also sure that the different cultures of Europe get their say as France is much more in tune with the interests of the South of Europe and Germany is more close with the East of Europe.

And if the EU is not a "voluntary association" than what is it? You know that to become members new applicants have to walk a many years long path of association, don't you. Some even without any chance of success...nobody is forced.

dolnoslask
10 Aug 2018  #34

France is much more in tune with the interests of the South of Europe

Nope in my experience France is interested in France.

Germany is more close with the East of Europe

Well apart from a couple of wars that were probably not caused by a direct conflict between Britain and Germany I do think the Germans are closer to Britain's in their mindset

From my experience it is far simpler to do business in Germany than in France, four hour lunch times in France don't help to make a deal you just end up pi$$ed on wine.

cms neuf
10 Aug 2018  #35

Maf - after two years of arguing between different factions the UK finally presented the EU with a prooosal which they knew would not be accepted by the EU and which has zero political support from either leavers or remainers. What do you think the EU should do ?

They can negotiate on this basis which is a waste of time because any solution would not pass the UK parliament, or

They could publicly trash and says its a stupid proposal which would probably bring down the UK govt (they have a majority of one even with the Northern Irish)l a replacement govt would take months to form and would probably not survive until March.

Bratwurst Boy
10 Aug 2018  #36

I do think the Germans are closer to Britain's in their mindset

Definitely. Germany may even shed a tear or two at watching Britain leave...France definitely not. :)

But GB was never really a part of Europe in a way France and Germany are. They viewed the EU with distrust and distaste from the beginning (Churchill forgotten), and only joined as it proved to be profitable. Maybe them leaving is a more "natural" thing than them staying...dunno...but it will change the EU for sure, the changes have already started.

For Germany and France leaving is just not an option, no fence sitting possible!

dolnoslask
10 Aug 2018  #37

Germany may even shed a tear or two at watching Britain leave...France definitely not.

There we go I too think it was the frogs fault, after all charlie de galle did his best to keep the brits in the first place, hey but look at hi role in WWII , lol.

mafketis
10 Aug 2018  #38

but look at hi role in WWII

Don't mention the war!..... I did but I think I got away with it....

Tacitus
10 Aug 2018  #39

Naw, the Brits are perfectly responsible for their own decision.

mafketis
10 Aug 2018  #40

the UK finally presented the EU with a prooosal which they knew would not be accepted by the EU

Isn't the current government trying to put off and ultimately cancel Brexit? I haven't had a single second when I thought TM was seriously pursuing any kind of Brexit .

Bottom line regarding Ulster... If the United Kingdom and Ireland (as two sovereign states) cannot come to an agreement that is equally satisfactory to both sides then the EU is not doing either much good.

Bratwurst Boy
10 Aug 2018  #41

Wasn't it the case anyhow that the Brexiters only won more than half of the votes in England? But that the rest of the UK voted for remain in their majority?

They could break up the UK.....let England leave and the others stay...;)

cms neuf
10 Aug 2018  #42

In her first 6 months in charge she was very much in favor - she made her Brexit means Brexit speech and gave all the top jobs to Brexit supporters and crucially sent a letter saying the UK would leave with a fixed date, but no idea of what she wanted as an end state. She then called an election to give herself a bigger majority that would make it easier.

Big mistake for her - young people had a huge turnout, most of them anti Brexit and her majority went from 20 down to 1 and that only with the support of Northern Irish, which is why the Irish border problem is so insoluble. If she sells them out then there will be no govt and probably no Brexit.

Since that election she and the rest of the country are paralyzed politically and she has only recently started to be honest about the consequences of Brexit. The economic impact is being felt and she has two huge problems in Scotland and Ireland to deal with.

But so far she has said no extension, no second referendum - some time soon she will do a huge U turn as there is no way to fix this without another election. None of the Brexiteers either wants or knows how to implement it.

As for an agreement between Britain and Ireland then telling them to sit down and sort it out in 6 months is not realistic. The previous agreement took 4 years and from the Irish perspective there is no reason to change it.

mafketis
10 Aug 2018  #43

.let England leave and the others stay...;)

England is the economic workhorse of the UK that keeps the rest from being Greece... does the EU really want three new Greeces?

dolnoslask
10 Aug 2018  #44

I agree sadly wales, Scotland and norther Ireland rely on the UK financial sector, but what happens if capital flees from the city post brexit?

Bratwurst Boy
10 Aug 2018  #45

England is the economic workhorse of the UK that keeps the rest from being Greece... does the EU really want three new Greeces?

Well...if you ask it like that...

Bratwurst Boy
12 Aug 2018  #46

More than 100 seats that backed Brexit now want to remain in EU

Major new analysis shows most constituencies now have majority who want to Remain

Do people now start to think the unthinkable? What will the Brits do with that changed mood in GB?
But it would end the irish border question for sure...

Atch
12 Aug 2018  #47

What will the Brits do with that changed mood in GB?

A recent professionally conducted poll of 10,000 members of the British public found that if asked to vote again, 53% would prefer to remain. However May's government has repeatedly said there will be no second referendum.

Bratwurst Boy
12 Aug 2018  #48

Whoa...in the worst case that could mean the hardest, most difficult no-deal Brexit with a rising remain-populace....good luck GB, they will need it!

mafketis
12 Aug 2018  #49

Face it, Germany. The UK is just not into you. Accept it and move on....

Bratwurst Boy
12 Aug 2018  #50

*accepted..moved on...watching from afar with a bag of popcorn..*

Tacitus
12 Aug 2018  #51

Thanks UK. We appreciate your sacrifice by reminding the people how damaging the EU would be.

Farage however should be considering leaving the UK for Russia. Otherwise he might be arrested for treason once the people find out how badly he deceived them, perhaps even with Russia's help.

Joker
13 Aug 2018  #52

This Nigel Farage, what a splendid chap! He's like the British Trump:)

When all the libs want to hang you for treason, then your on the right track!

cms neuf
13 Aug 2018  #53

Well to be fair even Trump is in office trying to implement his promises

Farage ran off to the US to present a radio show and disowned his lies literally the day after the referendum

Farage has never been elected to parliament in 7 attempts.

mafketis
13 Aug 2018  #54

inding the people how damaging the EU would be.

Is that what you meant to write? I recently read a political science paper comparing the EU to Toynbee's "universal state" - a last ditch effort for an obsolete elite to hold onto power - they always fail but the failure eventually leads to a new order....

One of the signs of a universal state is overreach (the prime EU example is the Euro)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Study_of_History#Universal_state

delphiandomine
14 Aug 2018  #55

One of the signs of a universal state is overreach (the prime EU example is the Euro)

I still maintain the Euro made a lot of sense in the sense of Franco-German economic union, but it should have been a very exclusive club with a single budget and no independent national banks, only one single European bank. Letting in the vast majority of countries was an unbelievable mistake, especially Italy and Spain but not only. I can only think of Austria, France, Germany, Luxembourg, Holland, Finland, the Baltic States (because their currencies were effectively just subunits of the DM anyway and Ireland that should be in the Euro today. Even Ireland and Finland are a judgement call given the Finnish economic crisis in the early 1990's and the Irish crisis a few years back.

The rest - no. Absolutely no. Possibly Slovenia, but that's a 50/50 call at best.

I've just read that the Spanish banks have lent over $80bn to Turkey - so the same old story is repeating itself.

(as for the EU as a whole, expansion should have stopped at around 18 members - the 15 from 1995, plus Slovenia, Estonia and possibly Malta. The rest? No.

mafketis
14 Aug 2018  #56

the Euro made a lot of sense in the sense of Franco-German economic union

That's what I used to think but.... did it? One reason for the Euro were constantly fluctuating exchange rates but by the time the Euro was rolled out computers were more than capable of dealing with that. It's always been a product that was long on ideology and short on economic sense.

The problem is what to do now? Southern service economies can never thrive with it.... just accept that they'll stay poor and a source of cheap labor for the North?

Dirk diggler
14 Aug 2018  #57

I've just read that the Spanish banks have lent over $80bn to Turkey - so the same old story is repeating itself.

It's more than likely due to over exposure to the lira. Many countries banks, especially italy and it appears Spain as well otherwise they wouldn't of loaned all that money, put a ton of money into Turkey because of the amazing rates - im talking double digits like 15 16 17% on the lira. It's one of the few relatively stable countries who's banks won't disappear overnight that have such rates. Ukraine and I believe Kenya offer similar rates but their banks are more risky especially Ukraine which are often declared insolvent out of nowhere.

Bratwurst Boy
14 Aug 2018  #58

just accept that they'll stay poor and a source of cheap labor for the North?

Compared to?

The southern countries fell over themselves to become a member of this club...to be able to get to money at the same rates like Germany or France...the whole South was rebuild with money they would have otherwise never could have afforded nor gotten.

That most of it were drowned in a swamp of corruption, nepotism, bad/non existent bureaucracy and all around inability to build not only shiny new streets but to develop new sources of income was a hard wake up call.

But that's not the fault of the Euro...it's a currency ffs, it's a tool...it doesn't make or break economies.

mafketis
14 Aug 2018  #59

...it's a currency

It's not a real currency without transfers... as for the rest, so much for European solidarity... no wonder the UK wants out

Bratwurst Boy
14 Aug 2018  #60

Huh?

To much solidarity for the UK's taste?

You are not trying to sell Britain leaving because the EU was not close enough? Not showing enough solidarity with the poorer members? Or? :):):)


PreviousNext
USA News and Poland [1,106]European News Thread [1,254]


Off-Topic / After Brexit, Northern Ireland may obtain a special status in the EUtop