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After Brexit, Northern Ireland may obtain a special status in the EU



cms neuf
16 Aug 2018  #91

And what is stopping the EU from also making these connections with growing economies ?

In fact if you are say Thailand or Argentina wouldnt the EUs 500m people under one set of rules be more attractive?

Tacitus
16 Aug 2018  #92

The entire economic arguments in favour of Brexit are entirely ridiculous as e.g. this video points out. Starting at abou 0:50.

youtu.be/yWejA4YB03A

In short 27 out of 35 of the most advanced economies in the world are in the EU. Most of the world is still very poor, per capita income, and the UK specialices in services that target the (relatively) wealthy people. Sure, some parts of the world are growing faster than the EU, but they do so from an several times smaller basis. They won't catch up to the EU within the next 5 decades, perhaps longer.

And claiming that the EU is chaining down its members is ridiculous. Germany is a global trading powerhouse, and as for the much vaunted Commonwealth connection. Germany is a larger trading partner of India than the UK. What stops the UK from doing the same?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_partners_of_India

As with all Brexit arguments, they fall apart when they are looked upon more closely.

Bratwurst Boy
16 Aug 2018  #93

And what is stopping the EU from also making these connections with growing economies ?

We have these connections already...

A map of the countries with which the EU is negotiating, or already has, free trade agreements. Amongst Commonwealth countries, the EU has free trade agreements with South Africa, Cameroon, Zambia, and the 12 commonwealth members of the Caribbean Community.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_free_trade#/media/File:EU_free_trade_agreements.PNG

And it will get even better:

EU pushes for free trade with Commonwealth in face of Trump pressure

express.co.uk/news/world/947593/usa-trade-war-eu-donald-trump-commonwealth-angela-merkel-jacinda-ardern

Dirk diggler
18 Aug 2018  #94

Looks like farage is going to finish what he started and do something about the brexit traitors especially theresa May pussy ass selling out of brexit voters. UK should just cut the crap and make farage dictator and king for life.

breitbart.com/london/2018/08/18/im-back-farage-returns-to-frontline-to-fight-establishments-brexit-sell-out/

Bratwurst Boy
18 Aug 2018  #95

and make farage dictator and king for life.

This ugly mug face???

cms neuf
18 Aug 2018  #96

Finish what he started ? The day after the vote he admitted the main promise was a lie and then quit to run a chat show.

Farage could of course run for election -,so far he tried 7 times to get a seat in Parliament but didnt manage it

May is hopeless all right but its not her fault - she left 4 Brexit supporting ministers in charge of it - johnson, Gove, Davis and Fox. In two years they have not lifted a finger and achieved nothing. She is merely trying to clean up their mess.

Tacitus
19 Aug 2018  #97

Farage has his own radio show in which people can call him and ask him questions regarding Brexit.

Here a vet called in and pointed out that Brexit will leave the UK dangerously low on vets, and that those vets will be needed to get trade deals with other countries (because they have to certify the food here). In the end he realizes that he has no argument and concedes defeat.

youtube.com/watch?v=leEfrYamf00

And people are actually still listening to this conman... .

TheWizard
20 Aug 2018  #98

Someone wrote above why the UK cant do what germany is doing on its own? Its really simple, quality of worksmanship, dedication to projects, work ethic, class system, arrogance. Not sure if i should continue but look around in your house / steet, how many things are made in the uk? Answer is none here, nor will i be buying anything made there over a german product, laughable. Secondly germany has put away its weapons some time ago to become industrial leader of europe and uk has put away reason to argue with europe and consistently criticize it and the eu and have now let out its racists and loons into the open. Hurry the f...k up uk and get out. Please go now!

cms neuf
20 Aug 2018  #99

Of course Farage has no answers for Vets - in the campaign experts were derided but almost every profession knows that Brexit will bring thousands of small and large problems - vets, doctors, engineers, lawyers, bankers, scientists, academics all opposed it. The govt had two years to find solutions for those problems but has done nothing.

Wizard - Britan has some good industries like pharma, aerospace and quite a big tech sector but it's main business is as the office for Europe - the biggest financial and admin center which it does well. That is going to be royally screwed by Brexit.

mafketis
20 Aug 2018  #100

the UK dangerously low on vets

The UK can't even train its own vets? High time it leaves the EU and starts to pay attention to educating and training its citizens instead of importing all its workers!

cms neuf
20 Aug 2018  #101

Yes well given a vet takes 7 years of school then they only needed a five year head start before the referendum. In the meantime who really needs a food chain ?

mafketis
20 Aug 2018  #102

The UK long ago seemed to have stopped educating/training its own population and just importing people to work. That is not a long term functional solution and it has to change at some time. All transitions are painful, even the most necessary ones.

cms neuf
20 Aug 2018  #103

That is untrue - university education among native Brits increased hugely over the last 30 years but elite professions will always have scarcity value. Of course Britain can improve its education but that won't happen with Brexit making the country poorer and collecting less taxes.

The vets thing shows Brexit's idiocy in microcosm. To train a vet you need 3 things; time and now there is none, money and now there will be less, and finally clever people who will be more inclined to leave before the transition period finishes.

The week after the vote someone in govt should have listed the skills shortages. If they started to train more vets in 2016 then the problem would be halved by 2020 when the transition period ends. Meanwhile e they could have told the public there was a shortage of vets and it would be painful. Instead they sat on their backsides and did nothing - no surprise since the Brexit politicians are stupid and inexperienced and weak when it comes to delivering bad news.

It won't just be a painful transition it will be catastrophic!

Anyway off to face Monday morning :(( - have a good week Maf :)

TheWizard
20 Aug 2018  #104

It would be nice for uk to stay in, i just gave up on the idea because of the large chorus of moronic slogans such as ' brexit is brexit', ' strong and stable' .....you know the ones i mean. You would have to be daft to subscribe to any of that as anything but hot air. Got a bit sick of hearing about it so started thinking ' just get on with it'.

Bratwurst Boy
20 Aug 2018  #105

High time it leaves the EU and starts to pay attention to educating and training its citizens instead of importing all its workers!

There is nothing the UK could do now outside of the EU what it couldn't do inside the EU...maybe because blaming the EU for all it's own failures.

Brussels was just to easy a scape goat for any numb nut of a politician to gloss over it's own lacking ability and skill. In that case the Brexit will be a big win for the EU! :)

But on the other hand, the EU-scape goat is just so dear to them Brexiters they won't even let it go after they got their wish. Now everything what is and further will be going wrong in the wake of this catastrophe will be of course also put on the feet of the "mean EU" which does just everything in it's power to hinder the british eagle from flying free (or some similar crap in this vein). *eye roll*

Dirk diggler
20 Aug 2018  #106

That is untrue - university education among native Brits increased hugely

Key word: NATIVE

Here a vet called in and pointed out that Brexit will leave the UK dangerously low on vets,

Boo hoo, a few less dogs will have their balls chopped off. If need be UK can import vets from abroad.

The soft brexit is b.s. uk is still beholden to the eus regulations, migrants, fishing zone rules, etc. It's basically no brexit at all. They need to just cup the crap, leave eu, stop paying tens of billions into eu coffers, secure it's borders and not let more migrants from eu and abroad in, etc. The market will figure itself out in terms of trade.

Dirk diggler
20 Aug 2018  #107

There is nothing the UK could do now outside of the EU what it couldn't do inside the EU...

To my understanding UK has a few opt outs. Nonetheless if it stayed in the eu at the very least it would still have to pay tens of billions of pounds to Brussels.

Bratwurst Boy
20 Aug 2018  #108

To my understanding UK has a few opt outs.

Britain had alot of opt-outs. You could call it also "cherry picking". The EU did bend backwards to accomodate the special situation and needs of Britain. So much so that others were frowning and quite unhappy about it already.

Nonetheless if it stayed in the eu at the very least it would still have to pay tens of billions of pounds to Brussels

Yeah...let's see if they now invest that "saved" money better. The big "leave"-promise with the NHS has already proven to be a lie though...so I wouldn't get my hopes up if I were a Brexiter.

But if they stay in the EU (what I don't believe)...no more cherry picking!

johnny reb
20 Aug 2018  #109

To my understanding UK would still have to pay tens of billions of pounds to Brussels.

I think the U.K. pays in like 110 Euro per person while Poland pays in minus 355 Euro per person.
Can you blame the U.K. ?

cms neuf
20 Aug 2018  #110

This lady was not talking about vets for dogs but vets in agriculture and the need for them in Britain's food chain.

Britain does not pay in tens of billions of pounds - it pays 12 billion net per annum but this amount is already dwarfed by the extra costs of borrowing and the hit to public finances since Brexit - roughly 25 billion, which will get worse once the UK exits.

The 110 euro per person has already been wiped out by higher inflation since Brexit.

How will the market "figure itself out" ? - give some examples of positive economic outcomes for British consumers. I can think of hundreds of negative effects.

Dirk diggler
20 Aug 2018  #111

How will the market "figure itself out" ?

Read about Adam Smith's invisible hand.

Every brexiteer knew there'd be an immediate economic downturn and weaker pound. And if they didn't they're dense asf. Brexit is a long tern strategy for UK to regain its independence and sovereignty. UK is one of the top 5 economies in the world a bit behind germany in terms of GDP I believe. It's not going to suddenly implode without the eu. Plus, the UK can always gain new economic partnerships and trade deals especially with China, us, etc as they wouldn't be beholden to the eu.

Bratwurst Boy
20 Aug 2018  #112

Some of the poorest counties are those where the overwhelming majority voted for "Leave". Thing is that most of their income is financed through the EU support funds for developing aka poor regions.

Let's see how and IF London now takes over the payments to keep them alive...I have no compassion left. Some stupidity needs to be felt!

theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/27/parts-of-uk-that-voted-for-brexit-may-be-hardest-hit-study-finds

Plus, the UK can always gain new economic partnerships and trade deals especially with China, us, etc as they wouldn't be beholden to the eu.

And what exactly stopped them doing so from inside the EU?

You know? Like Germany does? Do you think the EU in any way stopped Germany to become the economical powerhouse it is? Germany has excellent trade with China...you know...being part of the EU.

Why was Britain "hindered" by the EU whereas Germany was helped and supported by the EU? Is the EU to blame or rather the skill of the diplomats and traders?

How do you think it strenghtens Britains position in Beijing if it comes now without the negotiating power of the biggest consumer market behind it but all alone by itself?

cms neuf
20 Aug 2018  #113

I read Adam Smith when I was 16 Dirk and I don't recall many passages relevant to the situation three centuries later where Britain's main business is the cross-border provision of very advanced services.

Again please provide examples of where the British consumer will be better off next year, not in 50 years.

Of course it will lead to an economic downturn but that was not included in any of the brexit campaigns literature or TV appearances. So for many of the tubes voted for this it will come as a total shock - they already surprised by the inflation and by the labour shortage not just the vets but also for example of nurses, doctors, dentists and even footballers.

How is a deal with a distant country like China or the US going to be better than being in a single market with the 500 million people that are 30 km away ? - just look at the current trade figures of the UK to see what a weak argument this is.

Miloslaw
20 Aug 2018  #114

We all knew we would take a short term hit on leaving The EU but voted for the long term and because we were fed up of being ruled by Brussels.

Thing is that most of their income is financed through the EU support funds for developing aka poor regions

Not true.Most of the finance comes from London and The EU contribution is only taken out of what we pay in anyway!

UK will be able to make free trade deals with non EU countries when we leave.EU members cannot do that.

Bratwurst Boy,you Germans underestimate us Brits...and your arrogance has cost you dear more than once.

UK will be fine.

Bratwurst Boy
20 Aug 2018  #115

EU members cannot do that.

Funny! Do you know why so many countries stand in a queue to become member of the EU?

BECAUSE SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO NEGOTIATE ALL ALONE.

Because, just in case you don't know it, being part of a powerful economical union is a huge PLUS and makes even the most tiny country powerful and influential as the most big player in the bloc.

I'm not sure who or what told you the line that having to negotiate trade all by yourself, with only your tiny market and a few millions customers makes you in some way stronger or more successful as being part of a huge trading bloc of many millions square kilometer and paying customers.

Outside of being a huge country yourself...like...say...the US...or China...or even Russia that is.

Bratwurst Boy,you Germans underestimate us Brits...and your arrogance has cost you dear more than once.

Which arrogance do you mean?

The arrogance of

"We are stronger together"?

or

"Pffft...we don't need anybody. We are better off alone. They are only dragging us back anyhow!"

That outcome of Brexit is already defined not by arrogance but by economical logic...

Miloslaw
20 Aug 2018  #116

Funny! Do you know why so many countries stand in a queue to become member of the EU?

Yes.To get money from the very few nett contributors.

When a huge trading block like The EU negotiate deals it takes forever because it is a huge lumbering bureaucratic monster.

And we found it very easy to make deals before joining The EU.

The UK is not like Europe,we don't think or work the same and The EU have just been holding us back and taking our money for years.

We have had enough of being taken advantage of.

Bratwurst Boy
20 Aug 2018  #117

The EU have just been holding us back and taking our money for years.

Okay...you fell for these lies....so you must live through them. Some experiences just need to be made, it seems....sad.

We have had enough of being taken advantage of.

Ditto here....heh:)

No more easy money for your bankers...no more rebates...no more support for Wales and Northern Ireland...no more easy
work and living across the continent...no more pushing above your weight generally.

Let's see...

One thing is for sure though...if you couldn't make it inside the EU, with all it's support and possibilities, you will suck outside of it, all alone.

But hey, you are something "special", right? The common economical rules are not the same for GREAT Britain, right? Of course...

cms neuf
20 Aug 2018  #118

Miloslaw can you tell us what the long term means ? What is your timeline for Britain being better off? And what is your criteria? - Economics? Position in the world? Soft things like life expectancy or health?

Tell us what the sunlit uplands will look like

Bratwurst Boy
20 Aug 2018  #119

Just a little bit food for thoughts...Germany is paying more than GB for longer....and nobody here is calling the EU as a burden but rather the asset for our economical power that it is.

(And totally without the rebate which got the UK two thirds of it's payments back)

So, to what makes it GB? The loser who couldn't make it's membership work for it the same? Maybe you are just not as smart and able? What did yo do wrong? Not "tough enough"?

Do you really think you have what it takes now outside the EU?

You rather sound like the whiny kid on the playingfield, which stamps it's feet and stops playing because it can't keep up with the others...now crying that the "game is stupid and the rules are bad anyhow and that other game over there is much better"....

Good luck!

Atch
20 Aug 2018  #120

Britain has been trading with modern China for decades, long before the EU. They already have a network in place.


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