Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 10

He tried. He failed.

He made some guy who is younger than me his prime minister - to project "YOUTH".

He started to be "hard on migrants".

Now, when it's clear those things haven't worked, and Le Pen's little toy Bardella is wiping the floor with Macron - it is back to France's favorite national topic: "F*ck America for a Strong Europe!".

The elections to the European Parliament are on June 9th, after that you can expect for Macron to stfu again.

Every 20-30 years, France starts to make farting sounds about "strategic autonomy" and "masters of our destiny".

Give him credit for honesty. At least he didn't propose a "mutual defense treaty".

Maybe he means it?

He has to win alot.....Europe saved by french nukes....and only Paris has the codes....what a unique situation for Macron and France!

Anyways, I hereby give up on predicting, evaluating or judging anything connected with this war. This is all messed up beyond any reasonable measure.

In the old days one could discuss international politics in terms of spheres of influence, balance of power, military might, economy, political systems etc. but none of these things seem even remotely as relevant today as it was in the past. The proper criteria are gone, the justifiable motives are gone, the viable causes, strategic aims, means of conducting - nothing is where it should be and chaos reigns supreme. Long time ago I read an academic paper about the rise of entropy in the universe but I never suspected that its conclusions will one day be applicable to world politics.


See what I'm talking about? This is Monty-Python-level absurdity. Geez...

Hmmm...chaos is a symptom for a time of change....before a new order takes hold....

Damn it, BB. Stop freaking me out. :D

Anyways, like a good Catholic I'm switching to full papal view on this one: who am I to judge, NATO barking at Russia's door, I don't know who the aggressor is etc. etc.

I should have listened to the His Holiness Holy Father Pope Francis from the very beginning. I apologise and repent for ever calling him Comrade Bergoglio.

Okayokay....;)

Today, things are not black and white. The US used to support the Taliban, Then, we spent a lot of money to kill them.

Look at this forum...I wanted to create a guide to who hates whom but gave up for lack of consistency and clarity.

And the Understatement of the Year award goes to... Novichok!


:D

I had a professor in college, who really liked me. His favorite thing to do, was reminding us students "how fragile the present liberal order is". At the time, it sounded to me like fantasy. The liberal order seemed as though it were wearing a three layered belt of armor, and stood upon an impossibly robust foundation.

When he said that countries like my own, or China, would seek to constantly undermine this order - I would laugh. It seemed to me a pretty childish/romantic interpretation of Russia and its capabilities.

Now, just 15 years later, I often wonder about how right this guy was. The edifice was grand, but the structural integrity was gone.

Of course, he would tell us it is fragile, because he wanted us to dedicate our life to preserving it. Little did he know he had a little Putinist sitting in his class, haha!

I disagree. Motives and strategic aims are all there. I believe Putin's aim is completely strategic: he wants a ring of influence-a safety buffer-around Russia. His motivations are justifiable from his perspective: he doesn't want Russian territory to touch up against NATO. Makes complete strategic sense and is a sensible motive.

I don't think you are a Putinist....you are a patriot!

"My country - good or bad!" You know how it goes....I believe many Germans in other countries were the same back then...

@Bobko

A wise professor.

Not that it really takes much imagination to have realized that the pillars the liberal order is set upon were/are being eroded.

Your post confirms my opinion that it must be in the water. All Americans here show extraordinarily high IQ

:)

Yeah, you never know who you're dealing with, be it a university class or an internet board. The question is: will common sense and survival instinct prevail in the end or have we reached the point of depravity at which anything is possible. Jerzy Szczepkowski thinks we have...

3dom.pro/19856-katechizm-antykultury-jerzy-szczepkowski.html

... but I keep forgetting that as a Marxist you are not interested in theology. However, even one not interested in theology may well admit the possibility (even if ever so slight) of Satan acting in today's world (remember the picture you posted here, of Jesus and Satan arm wrestling? :)).

Anyways, you had a very good teacher but I doubt even he could have predicted the level of today's chaos.


Maybe on Russia's side (and partly America's), but what is Europe's strategy? What are our possible gains and motives? What are European/Polish realistic short and long term goals? If you know then, please, tell me because I am at a loss here. I am looking at it all from Polish/European perspective and I see chaos and bleak future :(

After every tornado comes that erie calm...then reconstruction.

The new is always better than what was destroyed. See Warsaw and Hiroshima in 1945 and 2024.

Well, now I understand it.

Before I started college, America had brazenly invaded Iraq to pretty much global condemnation - and nothing happened to it. I think some smart guy called that America's "hyperpower moment". It was f*cking terrifying, because it really did seem like the end of history. America seemed unstoppable, and we were all living in its world.

Then the 2008 financial crisis happened, McCain picked Sarah Palin as his running mate, and Iraq and Afghanistan ended up being enormous black holes - and I relaxed a bit haha.

Maybe it's incorrect for me synonimize "the liberal order" and the recent history of the United States, but it's how I feel it.


Oh I'm interested in theology, as you well know.

It's good that you have decided to apologize to His All-Holiness :)

Unless we reached the tipping point so there won't be much eerie calm and the "reconstruction" might be a different thing than we suspect.


Hmm... I shall leave this statement for numerous historians on this board to comment on. ;)


Well, one should be humble enough to acknowledge one's obvious past mistakes. :)

Past reconstructions which were dynamic and exciting happened in the context of a rapidly growing world.

How will reconstruction look when the sides are spiraling towards demographic collapse?

Infrastructure investment cannot be a long term driver of economic success in the modern world.

We don't have a large generation of Baby Boomers to remake the world as their own, but rather 4 different mutts pulling the blanket each in their direction.

It may be a real possibility that things will just be sh*ttier and for quite a long time. Think more 14th century, than 19th ;)

Exactly!

And this...


... is what worries me because that's 14th century without cathedrals, scholastic philosophy and Christian universalism but with wokism, anticulture, moral vacuum, and nuclear weapons. Colour me pessimistic.

Impossible n'est pas français .


he talks like that all the time not only he is a bad politician but also has no balls as Uncle Ruckus of PF likes to say.

Why PSL is supporting Tusk after they killed CPK and other vital issues and are only surrendering to Brusless which is going to cost us a lot? I predict that those who support this government will have to ask Zelesky for Ukrainian passports/

Ahahaha, this is a good one!

Agree completely that he is a sh*t politician. What he said about sending Ukrainian men back, though very popular in the moment, is a genie you cannot put back in the bottle.

This government has already shown its stupidity in its handling of the border embargo crisis. This may be even worse, but will take longer to become evident.

In Russian, we call this - «и нашим, и вашим, за стакан спляшем». Translation, "for a glass of vodka we will dance both for us and for you". Some other relevant aphorism, about sitting on two chairs...

The right will destroy the current coalition, in the next elections, and it's not like they are even proposing any interesting. Instead the coalition is self destructing through unforced errors. Ukraine is but a very small part of it.

:)

Well, at least someone here is in a good mood today.


Beats me. You know I'm a PSL supporter but of its more conservative, commonsensical, peasant faction - think Marek Sawicki more than Kosiniak-Kamysz. For me personally, Tusk pushing for abortion would be enough to say "thank you, I'm out of this coalition".

All very good questions. It leaves me scratching my head. I don't quite know what America or Europe is to gain from this or exactly what are goals are. There is no satisfactory answer. It could be as cynical as feeding the MICC and/or a desire to see Russia completely defeated and this is the chance. I have no idea.

One thing that does make sense to me is that we are a culture in decline. The decades of bemoaning and exaggerating all the "evils" of our past, the rejection of our Judeo-Christian foundation that has lead us toward the tyranny of relativism, the attacks on our traditions and institutions, etc. have resulted in mass confusion and poor leadership.


There's something synonymous about the two, IMO, as well. We were able to take the great liberal thoughts of Western culture and bring them to fruition on a mass scale--as a result we became to keeper of the liberal order frame. Too bad we've spent that last 60-70 years pi$$ing on that flame.


Maybe not all...but, in the case of yours truly, I humbly agree.

Duh? So what? What the USA are going to do about it? That is the question not an understanding of the Russian motive which is obvious and has been obvious since 20 years ago.

So far the USA has done F-all for Eastern European countries that entered NATO and seems that as soon as they have an opportunity to prove all anti-American prejudices they started to have second thoughts. I would say that is the worst time to do that.

---


Are you asking what should be or what they are? If you ask about what they are that not much to say about this subject because the main problem of Poland is the fact we have sh'ty post-commie lite that is incompetent.

There are two fractions one lick boots of Berlin and the other of America and they both expect that the big boy will resolve all issues for them.

Berlin fraction is dumber one with your PSL in tow, But that is a pointless issue of dumb and dumber.

It should be like Hungary's or Slovakia's.

Namely, "How is this good for Hungary?", or "How is this good for Slovakia?".

America has not nuked Hungary, and the EU has not kicked them out. They have a voice. They have a position. Even though they are smaller, poorer, and overall less consequential than Poland.

A refreshing bit of independent thought.

Nothing at all? I find that bs.


Seems like we're opening up our wallet and military depots to provide some assistance to Ukraine.

But, what exactly is your point?

I can only agree. :(


Incompetent is putting it mildly, as for the "post-commie" bit, wouldn't you rather have Kwaśniewski, Miller and Oleksy (proper post-commies) in charge right now than this sad Tusk, Kosiniak-Kamysz, Hołownia cabaret?


Factions. Fraction is a f*cking ułamek. A c*nt of a language, I know.


Weeeeelll... with Germany we absolutely must live in peace and understanding (you know the export/import numbers, right?) as our closest and strongest neighbour. With Brussels, America, Russia etc. - everything is negotiable. So don't denigrate pro-Berlin camp because I'm in it too - if only they were willing to drop some of the more nonsensical "green" policies.

The sad fact is, we are not entirely able to conduct independent foreign policies as we lack power to do that (brutal but true). Therefore, the idea - which both you and I support - of Poland finally becoming a nuclear power. Then our hand of cards would be more playable.


At the moment, yes... something along these lines. And then - Europe from Lisbon to Vladivostok, and then Pax Sarmatica but this time with His Holiness the Pope on our side - put that in your pipe and smoke it, Crow. :D

@GefreiterKania

Come and be the Honorary Westerners in our little club, instead of being the Eastern ass clowns for Brussels and Washington.

Context can be key :)