Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 13

@Korvinus


*** Why do the Ukrainians now invade our homes, conquer our villages, blow up our bridges? Because they hate us and always wanted to attack us.

That this is the direct consequence of their full-scale invasion of Ukraine does not seem to occur to them.

Russian territory in Ukraine: 100,000+ KM2

Ukrainian territory in Russia: 1,000 KM2

So... Ukraine holds quite literally 100 times less territory. This makes it hard for me to understand what kind of bargaining "chips" you folks are discussing. We'll simply continue with our main job in the Donbass, and return to crush the Ukrainians in Kursk when the opportunity presents itself.

Do you think Putin is terrible at math, or that he has become so embarrassed by the incursion into Kursk that he will trade many multiples of territory in exchange to make the problem just go away?

This can only mean that:

1) You have no idea how Russia works
2) You have a paradoxically inflated estimation of Russia (especially BB).

Your "concern" for Russia, only shows on what high a pedestal you placed it on. Out of one side of your mouth you say - "Look at these pathetic drunks and their primitive ways" - and out of the other you say - "I cannot believe that mighty Russia would suffer such a humiliation".

There is some cognitive dissonance occurring here, for me.

The truth is that Russia feels it is fighting not Ukraine, but the entire West, so this makes it easy for our "ego" to explain what is happening in Kursk. We didn't suffer a "humiliating" slap in the face here, but another piece of unexpected treachery.

Push further into Kursk, and you just might force Russians to rally around the Kremlin.

Time to worry about that was up to Feb 23, 2022.... you made your bed, time to lie in it.


a russian whining about 'treachery' is literally the funniest thing ever.....

day 8 of the fire in proletarsk is maybe 5th or 6th.... russia could have chosen to try to make life better in russia.... and russians like you chose to try to make some other place miserable.... typical

x.com/Gakruks1/status/1827733707441967432

@mafketis

Another piece of data for the mathematically challenged:

1) Sudzha - the largest settlement in occupied Kursk - has a population of 5,000. The entire area under Nazi occupation has a population of approximately 40-50,000.

2) Pokrovsk - the next town the Russian army is advancing towards had a population of 50,000. Mirnograd, Pokrovsk's sister city, and even closer than Pokrovsk to the frontline - has a population of 45,000. Selidovo - a smaller town a few kilometers to the south - 23,000. Pokrovsk also happens to have Ukraine's largest coal mine, and one of the largest in Europe.

3) At the current moment, 6M former Ukrainians live in Russian occupied territories. 1.5 million of them children.

Now explain to me again - what f*cking bargaining chips are you talking about? Do you think we are completely retarded? Are you completely retarded?

You expect Russia to act more nobly towards its citizens, than any country in the history of the world? Sorry, Russia is not Israel to trade thousands of jihadists for the body of a dead IDF soldier. Russia is Russia. Once Russia takes something, it very rarely ever gives it back.

One area, only, where I see Zelensky has succeeded is giving his fan boys a boost of endorphins. Unfortunately, it will be very short lasting.

....a very high one, for sure! But where should the "realistic" one come from? The Sovietunion of my GDR-youth is long gone and I doubt I would recognize Putin's Russia today.


Don't you think most Russians can see through that special part of the propaganda? Germans got told similiar big stuff....it always must be build up a huge enemy to get the blood pumping and ready for war, right? That doesn't mean it's true....


Treachery! From the attacked and invaded Ukrainians??? Seriously? What should they have done to be not? Laying down and capitulating???

I have never referred to Sudzha or other areas across the border form Ukraine as 'bargaining chips'... and have not here really volunteered what I think is going on or what the goals might be.


At least you're halfway honest and referr to 'occupied' and recognize that a large majority of the local population doesn't want to live under moscow's benighted rule....


No i expect russia to ruthlessly exploit its citizens and for the russian government to not care whether the vast majority live in squalor or die in misery as long as it can keep itself in luxury.... I expect russia to act russian.

I'm pointing out that there are other, more civilized, ways of running a country than remain a kleptocratic thugocracy in which human life has no value and human dignity does not exist.

Try civilization, you might like it!

It's already lasting a few weeks. No it is not a big area or very populated but it still shows the Ukrainians are able to move quickly and effectively and that the whole frontier is now potentially a target for them.

Could you imagine other medium size powers like say Netherlands or Spain letting a foreign army stomp around on their territory for a fortnight, taking prisoners and blowing up bridges ?

Why are you talking about towns like Pokrovsk that North Nigeria has yet to conquer ?

Who said "gives"?

You are being booted out of Greater Ukraine.

The increased transparency of information is one of the advantages of democracy over autocracy.

In autocracies people are generally only accountable to those above them in the hierarchy, with the autocrat sitting at the top. So there is a strong tendency to report things in the most optimistic way even if it means lying or covering up bad news. And it especially means lying about and covering up corruption by the reporting party.

In democracies there is much greater downward accountability to citizens due to elections. Which means not only do you have to deal with a larger number of people making it harder to keep the truth from all of them (especially as democracies have much greater press and speech protections), but there are many positions that do not depend on the favor of those above them in the hierarchy to retain their position, as the higher hierarchy has a lot fewer options for firing an elected official. Even if a particular government job is not elected, eventually you hit a higher hierarchy position that is elected.

As a result leaders in democratic societies do not generally have nearly as much of a problem with false reports. Which is demonstrated in this war. Russia has had this serious issue with their operations nearly the entire war, while Ukrainian leaders have generally displayed that they are making decisions based off of a much more accurate understanding of their own forces, capabilities, and resources. Which generally makes their military operations more efficient, and is one of the significant factors in why Ukrainian forces have generally performed much better and more efficiently on the battlefield.

Not that Ukraine is perfect in this regard, but it is also worth noting that they consider such false military reporting as a lingering bad effect of the Soviet mindset that they are trying to rid their military of. Of course it isn't only a Soviet military problem. Militaries are already highly hierarchical structures and thus have a tendency towards hiding bad news. Which is why professional and western militaries put such an emphasis on combating false reporting by making it a serious offense and strongly encouraging a culture of accurate reporting.

Ok so you are not entirely delusional, and understand this has likely been a foolish diversion.


Despite not owing you a single thing, I always try to be honest here. What happens on PF will not decide a single thing, even the very smallest, about how this war will go. So I feel I owe it to myself and others to not be a deluded prick and actually attempt to have a genuine discussion.


What part of "Russia is fighting the collective West" is propaganda? In this, Putin is not lying, though it may be largely his doing.

The odds are stacked against Russia, in a way that has been obvious to everyone since the Spring of 2022. Our country is much poorer, less technologically advanced, less populated, and with fewer friends than whom we are fighting against. There is no propaganda here - so that's why we can feel not too upset about Kursk. Being the underdog is sort of Russia's thing... if you've ever opened a history book.

Even Hitler, who you mentioned, was maybe not engaging in "propaganda" when he painted the odds as he did.

Regarding treachery - I don't mean the Ukrainians - and I thought this was clear. I mean their patrons. They promised us not to let the Ukrainians strike inside Ukraine with the weapons they provided. So we relaxed our buttcheeks. Immediately a big fat penis was thrust into the anus. Maybe Zelensky truly did not ask for permission and has gone crazy... but somehow I doubt that.

Well....that's the point, isn't it?

As Putin invaded Ukraine he shocked most of a very friendly, hoping-for-good-business-West..you know it, and most Russians will know it too.


Wow....what a change from "in six weeks in Kiev"!!! ;)

Anyhow....have to leave now urgently! *waves and takes helmet*

Russia is fighting the nation of Ukraine that wishes to become part of the collective West, just like the nations of Poland, Czechia, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia did.

I know Russians are butthurt they're losing another of their former colonies but such is life. Nobody cares for has-beens. Especially has-been empires.

But North Nigeria also is being supplied by more powerful countries - China and Iran plus basket cases like North Korea, Mali and Niger and mischief makers like Hungary.

They also have tacit support from India and South Africa - though both are soft-pedaling now they see Putler losing control.

The support of all these wacky races countries is less effective for two reasons - firstly they have no morals and thus don't really care about your people and secondly as corrupt states they can only produce basic equipment.

Well, if you had been listening to Putin for the last 25 years - he's been harping on the "underdog" aspect of it all for quite some time. He even framed the West's actions as a "bullying" of Russia. When he finally invaded Ukraine, he framed it as - "I've got no choice left. If I don't push back, these f*ckers won't stop at my lunch, they'll take my home too."

This is how the Kremlin sells things to the domestic audience. An act of desperation, against a predatory West. Like the victim of a bully that couldn't stand it anymore, and goes berserk.


Stop tickling my as*hole. Czechia and Estonia excluded - you are just as violent, just as hardheaded, just as incapable of compromise, and just as predatory as Russia.

Russia practices imperial chauvinism? Look at how Polish public officials talk about Ukraine or Lithuania.

We are a morally bankrupt death cult? Look at the absolutely over the top, Himmler type things being written in Baltic and Polish public spaces. For god's sake - look at PF. Sometimes it's really hard to tell who the orcs are, because both sides write incredibly despicable, toxic things. Poland's "heroic" history and its very national anthem should give you an idea of which country has a death cult.

If Poland was quadrupled in population, and given a large nuclear arsenal - I'm scared to think what it would do and how it would act.

As things are, your German neighbors already look at you as slightly duplicitous barbarians. I think Germany would be absolutely sh*tting its pants if Poland had Russia's capabilities.

"I want to invade you" is a very different statement than "I will not let you get away with invading others". The latter is what deterrence means.

I've never called Russia a death cult. You mistake me with someone else.

Russian leaders don't worship death. They just don't care about lives of their subjects.

Let's see: no copy-paste please

Human freedom index for 2021, measuring personal freedoms in areas of rule of law, security and safety, movement, religion, association, assembly, and civil society, expression and information, relationships, size of government, Legal system and property rights, Sound money, Freedom to trade internationally,

Regulation: fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/human-freedom-index-2021.pdf

Financial Freedom: heritage.org/index/ranking
1. Singapore

...
16. Germany
...
24. United Kingdom
25. United States
...
39. Poland
...
113. Russia
...
130. Ukraine
135. Belarus

Ok, so let's just focus on media freedom, will we?

Reporters Without Borders create an index every year. 2022 edition is here: rsf.org/en/index

1. Norway
...
16. Germany
...
24. United Kingdom
...
42. United States

66. Poland
...
106. Ukraine
...
153. Belarus
155. Russia

See the pattern here?

@Korvinus
Excellent post. One question though. How can the United States lead anyone when they are not number one in any category?

Excellent question, PAK.

To a typical azhole Euro, we are somewhere between Albania and Zimbabwe in all categories.

...except when standing guard in Europe.

Then, boom...we are the leader of the free world and are absolutely and positively obligated to spend whatever it takes to protect these parasites from the evil Russia and even more evil Putin.

We are loud, pushy, obnoxious, uneducated, arrogant, and monolingual ... but pleeeease don't leave. We love you and NATO so much...

Name one thing the US government and Biden did that the voters happily supported.

Put an x next to any of these...

migrants

inflation

decaying cities

crime

energy policy

war with Russia

transgender "women" demolishing Title 9

Go ahead...

Ukraine Using Chemical Warfare, Germans & Polish Fighting In Kursk Says Russian Frontline Commander



Ukraine Soldiers Killed My Pregnant Wife

🇷🇺🇺🇦Ukrainian looters and Satanists are already selling icons stolen from churches in the Kursk region on OLX.

t.me/intelslava/65381

Ukraine will pay dearly for this.

...but first I want to see all Western "volunteers" dead. All of them ... Poles and Americans ... for dragging the US closer to a war with Russia.

Memo to "volunteers": I hope it will hurt before it will kill you, morons...

How do you feel about the rumored 20.000 Chinese "volunteers" that might be joining the North Nigerians ?

Damn, you're smart. :)

Jak to na wojence ładnie
Jak to na wojence ładnie
Kiedy ułan z konia spadnie
Kiedy ułan z konia spadnie
Koledzy go nie żałują
Koledzy go nie żałują
Jeszcze końmi go tratują
Jeszcze końmi go tratują

(...)

Śpij kolego w ciemnym grobie
Niech się Polska przyśni tobie

A nice song I remember from Primary School... like it was yesterday. 5th grade, music class, a bunch of 11-year-olds joyfully singing. Aaaah, childhood memories ... :)


Forget the population. Just give us those nukes. We need them. We deserve them. God wants us to have them.


'Slightly' is the key word. We are always underestimated. This is annoying af. :-/

I love them because I am not paying for them.

Besides, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

And obviously your "enemy" is Ukraine and "The West"..........

This, of course, requires correction. We are not duplicitous barbarians, we are duplicitus Romans.

The true West. Republican Rome perfected. The time will come for the world to see.

Two Romes have fallen, Moscow is the third, and there will be no fourth. ;)

...and NATO because one of these three as well as Poland may drag the US into a war with Russia - a country that has done the US no harm and was a US ally not so long ago.

Rome is fine as it is, and Moscow's days are past.

A declining population, an economy based on hydrocarbons that the world is moving on from and military humiliation by Ukraine.

And there will be another Russian revolution, not tomorrow, but probably in my lifetime.......