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Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 13



mafketis
23 Jul 2024  #151

For anyone doubting who won the second Chechen war....

x.com/cossackgundi/status/1815189669107143115

the russian government pays tribute to Chechnya so they can have their pretend caliphate where russian laws do not apply and armed Chechens roam the corridors of power in moscow....

But russia is a bastion of christia.... ha ha ha ha... couldn't write that with a straight face.....

mafketis
23 Jul 2024  #152

Why Russians themselves don't sort this retard out. A mystery.

That would be too close to protest for comfort..... the ideal russian simply accepts what the government says at the moment.

Torq
23 Jul 2024  #153

Solovyov is not the government. He's a retard who vents his frustrations and makes Russians look bad in the process.

jon357
23 Jul 2024  #154

makes Russians look bad

Not difficult right now.

mafketis
23 Jul 2024  #155

a retard who vents his frustrations

And if the russian government didn't want him saying what he says he woulnd't be syaing it....

Torq
23 Jul 2024  #156

Sorry, Maf, but that's nonsense. Solovyov is perceived by any normal person as a hatred-filled idiot. Why would the Russian government want to be perceived this way? He's not their spokesman.

Solovyov doesn't oppose Putin, so they leave him alone, tolerate him, but it's a mistake on their part.

jon357
23 Jul 2024  #157

Why would the Russian government want to be perceived this way? He's not their spokesman

Loosing extreme voices on the public makes them look almost reasonable in comparison.

It's an old trick; American politicians with their appalling Hannity, Jones, Bannon etc know it well.

mafketis
23 Jul 2024  #158

so they leave him alone, tolerate him, but it's a mistake on their part.

Solovyov's horrible rhetoric is not the problem (for the record he doesn't say anything worse than anyone else who appears on russian state tv)

The problem is there are no reasonable voices allowed in public in russia.... it's against the law for media to publicize crimes by returning soldiers (including criminals) it's against the law to talk about casualties etc etc

The problem is Solovyov et al have free range but no one is allowed to say on russian tv that the war was a catastrophic mistake that is ruining the country.

Individual extremists (even your imaginary 'banderites') are not a problem.... selectively muting a big part of public opinion is the problem.

I'm against censorship (unlike the head of RT who loves it). I'm in favor of a broad spectrum of opinions in public. Poland has that.... russia never has, which is why it remains a second rate dump.

Bobko
23 Jul 2024  #159

Poland has that.... russia never has

Russia has had that.

Most recently, from 1991 to roughly 2002. Russia then, was probably among the freest countries in the world. It ran concurrently with the worst lawlessness and collapse in morals.

As far as censorship goes, nightly there were programs on at least three different federal channels that did nothing but poke fun in the most savage way at the alcoholic Yeltsin and his band of slimy oligarchs. We had a whole zoo of different political parties, spanning the entire spectrum - from far right, to national Bolshevism. The Church was beaten and scared, and did not have even 1/10th the influence it has today.

You could say whatever you want, and do things that you couldn't do in any Western country.

Some creative people, and some businessmen - still remember this as the best time ever in Russian modern history. However, for the other 85% of society, this period was like a bad dream due to the extreme poverty and volatility. Putin managed to consolidate power to the extent he did, largely by pointing back at the 90s and asking people - "Is that what you want to go back to?".

An earlier period of extreme freedom was starting from the coming of the provisional government and through first few years of the Bolshevik's coming into power.

As far as the arts are concerned, these two periods saw a huge explosion in the production of world class literature, painting, music, etc. The late 1910s and early 1920s being much more productive than the 1990s.

The fun times in the early part of the century were ended by the conclusion of the Civil War and the rise of Stalin. The 90s fun times were ended by the start of the Second Chechen War and the rise of Putin.

Also worth remembering, that the number one liberalizer of Congress Poland throughout the 19th century (with the exception of Napoleon), was the Russian Tsar. The szlachta fought the Tsar tooth and nail, as he pushed through land reforms that granted large plots of land to peasants (Polish peasants received the most land proportionately of any Russian territory). The idea, of course, was to weaken the Polish nobility.

All the liberal reforms that the Tsar was wary of implementing in Russia, he would first experiment with in the Baltics, Finland, and Poland. In this way, serfdom was abolished first in Estonia (1816), Livonia (1816), and Courland (1817) only.

So Poland being more free, and Russia less so - was done by design.

Bratwurst Boy
23 Jul 2024  #160

Most recently, from 1991 to roughly 2002.

The age of the "Wild East"! :)

I guess most former eastern bloc countries did go through that....more or less...one very strict, opressive system broke down, the new order not quite fully established....

Bobko
23 Jul 2024  #161

The age of the "Wild East"!

Fun times, but not for the babushkas and dedushkas.

mafketis
23 Jul 2024  #162

from 1991 to roughly 2002. Russia then, was probably among the freest countries in the world. It ran concurrently with the worst lawlessness and collapse

The "curse of oil" all over again... for years there was a myth that oil revenue cursed countries to have bad, corrupt governments.... and then Norway happened.

So, it's not that oil caused good governments to go bad, it was just that oil did not help badly run societies improve.....

In other words, it wasn't that 'freedom' made russia lawless and led it to the brink of collapse but russia was already lawless and on the brink of collapse and freedom didn't help (because russians weren't up the rigors of running a free society).

From what I've read, contrary to the popular narrative about the collapse of the USSR creating a high stratified society... russia became slightly less stratified than it had been in the USSR. It did make the stratfication that already existed more visible (and changed the make up of the strata a little?).

Putin managed to consolidate power to the extent he did, largely by pointing back

So... he wasn't appointed by a handful of oligarchs to protect them from a population that hated them?

PolAmKrakow
24 Jul 2024  #163

nypost.com/2024/07/23/opinion/trump-vances-doctrine-of-military-realism-a-sign-of-hope-for-ukraine-and-not-isolationist/

Finally, more reasonable thinking being published.

cms neuf
24 Jul 2024  #164

Reasonable thinking being to trust North Nigeria and to condemn 8 million people to living under the rule of corrupt drunk rapists ?

Anyway Trump and weird Vance still have to win the election. That's gone from a 90 percent chance to a 60 percent chance

Crow
24 Jul 2024  #165

Solovyov is not the government. He's a retard who vents his frustrations and makes Russians look bad in the process.

Have in mind that Russia lost its nerves and at the moment don`t give a sh*t how those who labeled themselves as enemies, precept Russia.

Not difficult right now.

It was never difficult. Propaganda against Russia, as part of constant Drang Nach Osten, never ceased. So, as I said, Russia don`t care anymore. Russia would just smash its enemies and that`s about it.

mafketis
24 Jul 2024  #166

Another reason to detest russia?

Okay! Here it is.... russia is returning bodies of POW's without internal organs...

x.com/Mylovanov/status/1816197916668879094

Novichok
24 Jul 2024  #167

russia is returning bodies of POW's without internal organs...

They are needed as spare parts. What's wrong with that?

I like people who don't like waste.

Plural does not require an apostrophe. Sane people capitalize "Russia".

pawian
24 Jul 2024  #168

What's wrong with that?

Darling, karma always returns and the same may happen to imperial Russians. What do you think of it???

Sane people capitalize "Russia".

Some people capitalise RuSSia, too. hahahaha buhahahaha What do you think of it???

Novichok
24 Jul 2024  #169

Memo to Bobko and Velund:

I have a deal for you. If you bring another Russian to PF, I will donate 4 dumb Polaks.

If it's a woman, she should be as pretty as the one below. Then she can be a raving lunatic leftist. I am that open-minded.


  • Russian.jpg

Alien
25 Jul 2024  #170

If you bring another Russian to PF

Does a dead russian also count?

jon357
25 Jul 2024  #171

dead russian

Plenty of pictures of them online. The stray dogs around battlefields in Ukraine are very well fed.

Bobko
25 Jul 2024  #172

Does a dead russian also count?

Russian soldiers never die, because they are already dead!

I must now borrow from Yamamoto Tsunetomo's Hagakure:

"The Way of the Samurai is found in death. When it comes to either/or, there is only the quick choice of death. It is not particularly difficult. Be determined and advance. To say that dying without reaching one's aim is to die a dog's death is the frivolous way of sophisticates. When pressed with the choice of life or death, it is not necessary to gain one's aim."

pawian
25 Jul 2024  #173

because they are already dead!

Exactly. They go to battle like zombies.

Bobko
25 Jul 2024  #174

What does it say about Ukrainians, that zombies have been chewing through their strongest fortifications?

Over the past month, the last fortresses built since 2014 have fallen.

After Mirnograd there are no more belts of fortifications, until you reach Dnipropetrovsk.

Torq
25 Jul 2024  #175

They go to battle like zombies.

Reminds me of...



pawian
25 Jul 2024  #176

If you bring another Russian to PF

Be careful what you wish for. The Wishmaster can make a joke of your wish and you will get a decent Russian instead of imperial one.

pawian
25 Jul 2024  #177

After Mirnograd there are no more belts of fortifications

Doesn`t matter. Russians don`t have enough people and armament to make a major breakthrough.

Torq
25 Jul 2024  #178

Russians don`t have enough people

I still can't get used to the fact that we live in the world in which tiny Bangladesh has higher population than Russia, and more people leave on Java Island than in the largest country on Earth. Feckin' demographics...

We are like dinosaurs, guys.

pawian
25 Jul 2024  #179

We are like dinosaurs, guys.

We means Europeans and Russians. Bangladeshians have a different opinion. :):):)

Novichok
25 Jul 2024  #180

and more people live on Java Island than in the largest country on Earth.

There is a difference between people and rodents.


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