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Brexit 2019 and Poland



cms neuf
20 Feb 2020  #3,151

there are a lot of things wrong with London but boring is not one of them

mafketis
20 Feb 2020  #3,152

i mean.... uninteresting to me personally.... oh a globalized metropolis.... (yawn)

jon357
20 Feb 2020  #3,153

there are a lot of things wrong with London but boring is not one of them

Exactly. Just a walk up the mid bit of Green Lanes or around Spitalfields.

Vibrant.

Miloslaw
20 Feb 2020  #3,154

there are a lot of things wrong with London but boring is not one of them

Very true.
There are loads of nice parts of London(and loads of nasty parts) but Hampstead has always been one of my favourite areas.

Atch
20 Feb 2020  #3,155

The thing about London Maf, is that it was once a series of little villages around the City district and that sense of distinct personality can still be found in those original village areas like Kensington, Chelsea or indeed Hampstead so you don't necessarily feel as if you're in a big global metropolis. London is actually a much more intimate place than Warsaw. But basically, I think what makes London so special, is that whatever kind of person you are, you can live there comfortably and feel at home. You can be super conservative and conventional or extremely Bohemian and you'll fit in.

Miloslaw
20 Feb 2020  #3,156

Besides Hampstead, I also like, for different reasons, Camden Town,Mayfair,Chelsea,Kensington,Covent Garden,Richmond,Notting Hill and Islington.
There are many up and coming areas too, like Brixton and Peckham.

Ziemowit
20 Feb 2020  #3,157

I found London an almost miraculous place when I first came to the UK from the poverty-stricken Poland (Weimarer's expression :-) back in the 1980s. Just imagine the contrast between Jaruzelski's Poland and Thatcher's London! Arriving at the Victoria Station in the night, I found out that the person who were to pick me up from there to Ilford hadn't come. Before things were settled, I had to spend several hours in the station where I had my first chat ever in English in England. My interlocutor was one of London's down-and-outs (as they called them those days) and he was a very nice chap who may have not even heard of Poland before he met me.

what makes London so special, is that whatever kind of person you are, you can live there comfortably and feel at home.

I may even tell you that while living in London I experienced a nirvana (second and last one in my life so far). No, I am not kidding. This is a kind of feeling you cannot describe, a feeling of total hapiness without feeling hapiness, a feeling of total immersion in the universe to the extent that you cannot say yo are a separate creature from the universe. An absolute miracle without it being a miracle. That's what state of nirvana is in my view. And that was in London, my dear! Not in Hamstead, but in Ilford where I was walking down a street leading to the Gants Hill underground station from the north. Suddenly and unexpectedly during the sunny afternoon of an autumn day.

You may not believe me, but that is why I love London to this day even if I haven't been there ever since!

jon357
20 Feb 2020  #3,158

I found London an almost miraculous place when I first came to the UK from the poverty-stricken Polan

We always noticed the affluence too when coming from the North, even though the contrast was a smaller one than you saw.

Miloslaw
20 Feb 2020  #3,159

I may even tell you that while living in London I experienced a nirvana

It is very difficult to discern a genuine post from sarcasm on these forums, especially when you don't know much about the poster.
If you were being sarcastic Ziem, fair enough.
But your post seemed genuine to me..... ya got me!
But I will assume it is a heartfelt and genuine post.
If so, what you experienced was deeply personal and we don't need to know any more about that.
So my question is, without revealing anything about your personal nirvana, can you tell us what it was about London or Ilford that brought this about?

mafketis
20 Feb 2020  #3,160

I think what makes London so special, is that whatever kind of person you are, you can live there comfortably and feel at home

See? That's what I don't like.... you almost had me with the 100 villages spiel but I only like places that are specific enough that not just anyone can feel at home there. I found Constanta Romania (for example) so interesting just because it was so alien and inhospitable... I wouldn't want to live there (or.... would I?) but its very unique vibe made it memorable in the way that some place where just anyone could live in (ie. pleasing to the least common denominator).

One of the things that drew me to Poland was the very user-unfriendliness of the place in the 1990s... just learning how to get around or shop were accomplishments (not to mention learning how to deal with the bureaucracy).

To use a crude analogy.... anyone with a bit of money can have sex with a vvh0re, that doesn't make sex with them* any more special....

Please note, and be impressed by, my gender inclusive language....

Atch
21 Feb 2020  #3,161

I'm afraid I don't like gender inclusive language. Much like you with the word 'queue', I find gender inclusive language unnatural and a silly affectation :))

To get back to London, it is one of the few really diverse places in the world. It's a fascinating place, filled with 'characters'. When I lived there I used to go into a little cafe in Notting Hill Gate. It was run by a Greek and was exactly like your granny's dining room, floral carpet, lace curtains,white damask table cloths, real home-made gravy contrasting weirdly with tinned potatoes! The customers were such an interesting mix. One was an elderly Sir Somebody-Or-Other, there was an old lady who used to slip sugar lumps into her handbag,then there was a Spanish guy who ran a boutique nearby who used to come in with his girlfriend, he was about 40 and she was about 20. And there were two young guys who busked nearby and dressed in 1930s garb, suits, overcoats, Trilby hats, the whole lot. The waitress treated them like her own sons. Once they got up and gave an impromptu performance of 'Underneath The Arches' by Flannagan and Allen.

Then there was another place on the Finchley Road, Italian owners, greasy spoon 'caff'. Customers were builders, bikers, truck drivers, office workers and the girls from the ballet school nearby, with a few old tramps and homeless guys who would sit there for hours on rainy days nursing their cups of tea and chatting with the owner.

mafketis
21 Feb 2020  #3,162

I find gender inclusive language unnatural and a silly affectation

It depends for me, using 'they' as an indefinite or generic epicene pronoun seems completely normal and natural for me,

"You got a phone call but they didn't want to leave a message." (I actually have said that)

but some other usage 'birthing parent' instead of mother is insane.

one of the few really diverse places in the world

the examples you give aren't real diversity it's more like a colorful monoculture, real diversity would be a restaurant that has gender segregated and gender integrated areas and separate kitchens and eating utensils for different dietary requirements ... no sane person wants that kind of situation but there's a persistent longing for ethnic and racially diverse monocultures...

delphiandomine
21 Feb 2020  #3,163

but I only like places that are specific enough that not just anyone can feel at home there

It's probably changed now, but Paldiski in Estonia had that exact feel 15 years ago. People were openly hostile to obvious tourists, there was next to nothing there beyond a small shop, and the whole place was so absolutely uncomfortable. It wasn't just run down, but it had that air of being somewhere that genuinely bad things were happening.

mafketis
21 Feb 2020  #3,164

the whole place was so absolutely uncomfortable

Yes! Now that's an interesting place!

I also like working towns, places that are less oriented toward tourists and more toward people hustling to get through the day (in an honest way not through financial fvkkery or economic exploitation).

My first foray out of the US was to Valencia in post-Franco Spain just before the youth revolution, el caudillo was still on coins and his presence was still very much felt all over the place but people were determined to grind through to a better future.

Oaxaca Mexico was similar the working class neighborhood had a kind of.... charge to them that the more tourist oriented places lacked.

delphiandomine
21 Feb 2020  #3,165

I also like working towns, places that are less oriented toward tourists and more toward people hustling to get through the day

Svidnik and the surrounding area in Slovakia has that feel, as it was apparently a place for communist pilgrimages, but obviously now no-one is being bussed in to see the site of an epic Soviet battle. The place has several museums that no-one goes to, a field next to some flats with some military hardware, and an interesting mix of religions too. People were incredibly genuine there, and it really is a working class town with little ambition other than to live.

Bardejov is nearby too, and despite being on the UNESCO list, there were nearly no tourists in the middle of July.

Are you familiar with this guy? youtube.com/channel/UCxDZs_ltFFvn0FDHT6kmoXA - while it's meant to entertain, he does a fantastic job of showing how real life actually looks in places with nearly nothing in the way of tourism.

Probably the worst/most interesting place I've been is (Titov) Drvar in Bosnia. People were just genuinely unhappy there - it wasn't typical Slavic disinterest, but people were just so miserable and unhappy with their situation.

Ziemowit
21 Feb 2020  #3,166

But your post seemed genuine to me..... ya got me!

It was.

can you tell us what it was about London or Ilford that brought this about?

Thank you for your interest. After some two months already spent in England, all the benefits of that wonderful stay (not only in London, but in the North of England as well) had all accumulated on me in that moment, I think. All external circumstances which were rather unfavorable in Poland had suddenly and deeply changed into the almost fabulous ones. Change of politcal system, change of country and, most important of all, change of home where the mood was very gloomy since my father was an alcoholic and my mother didn't really know how to cope with this situation. My field of study also wasn't something chosen well and here I was dissatisfied, too. And all of a sudden, you are leaving all this behind you, you are in a train crossing half of Europe and then on to the ferry from which you can see the white cliffs of England promising you a new start. So you are in England, you are young and handsome (but not rich, however :-), you do what like to do and you slowly regain your piece of mind.which transforms you into another man. To sum up, nice pre-conditions to reach out for a state of nirvana even if it comes so abruptly and takes you by complete surprise!

As an addendum, I lost 13 kg of my weight after this stay of a year and a half. A lot of people were telling me after my return to Poland that I came back thoroughly changed, but they were unable to tell what this change was about .It possibly occured on so many levels that they couldn't refer to a particular trait.

Atch
21 Feb 2020  #3,167

separate kitchens and eating utensils for different dietary requirements

You do actually find that in large companies in the City district of London where there are a substantial number of Orthodox Jews. They have Kosher kitchens separate from the mainstream kitchen.

'birthing parent' instead of mother

That kind of nonsense makes me want to give the perpetrator a swift backhander :)) Really, wouldn't it make you want to give them a smack? Absolutely nauseating nonsense.

@ Ziem, thanks for sharing your memories. Lovely :))

Miloslaw
21 Feb 2020  #3,168

@Ziemowit
Thank you for sharing that.
I had a similar experience, but the other way round, when I first visited Poland and France too.
OK, I saw it from the perspective of a kid from a well off London family.
But still, Poland was poor and very grey, but excitingly different.
France was not grey, but visibly poorer than where I lived but still excitingly different.
As the years wound on, France became less and less different and today, she has lost much of her previous charm.
Poland on the other hand has grown, modernised and vastly improved itself, without becoming "Homogenised",like the French.
Poland still retains it's culture and character where France is in danger of losing hers.

Crow
3 Mar 2020  #3,169

Moment when morbid and truly sick Julius Caesar committed genocide on natives, region turned into something else and since then, being polluted by Romans and, as Romans themselves, tend to merge with Northern Africans. So magnates of France are now happy. They finally made France their true home. Czarnybog wouldn`t do it better.

Joker
3 Mar 2020  #3,170

Moment when morbid and truly sick Julius Caesar

Another attempt to hi-jack the thread with silly nonsense that has absolutely Nothing in common with the topic.

@Miloslaw

Have you been following the trade talks between the UK and US?

washingtonexaminer.com/policy/economy/uk-puts-digital-services-tax-on-the-table-in-trade-talks-following-us-pressure

Its still a long way away, but will better than being in the failing EU

Miloslaw
3 Mar 2020  #3,171

I trust the USA much more than The EU, despite what Rich says about his love/hate relationship with America.

mafketis
10 Sep 2020  #3,172

So... what's up now with Brexit? It seems like a mess again. One analysis I've seen is that Johnson has more or less accused the EU of _still_ trying to sabotage Brexit, through the Backstop which he has.... renounced? abrogated?

Now the UK is threatening a hard Brexit again (which to be fair seems to be the only way to get any flexibility from the EU).

Any thoughts?

Crow
10 Sep 2020  #3,173

Another attempt to hi-jack the thread with silly nonsense that has absolutely Nothing in common with the topic.

Its on topic even in off-topic. Somebody have to return Poles on the right path. Best way is to show them genesis.

I trust the USA much more than The EU

Oh finally something smart from you.

Now the UK is threatening a hard Brexit again.......

Any thoughts?

Of course. Germany (ie EU) must show power in order to stay in the game. In Serbia, Britain, Belarus. At the same time Germans tries to intimidate Russia and to invoke continental-wide trade. But they shall fail. Pan-Slavic lobby is now too strong in Russia.

Atch
11 Sep 2020  #3,174

So... what's up now with Brexit?

Basically, the UK is trying to wriggle out of the terms of the Withdrawal Agreement which they previously negotiated and signed up to by passing legislation which can override elements of it, including the NI protocol.

which to be fair seems to be the only way to get any flexibility from the EU

The UK has already had ample opportunity to reach agreement with the EU and has done so. The problem is not the EU. The problem is NI. In order to protect NI, the terms had to be agreed on the basis that they were agreed and there is no room for flexibility regarding those terms.

Anyway, Nancy Pelosi has reitereated what she said before:

"The UK must respect the Northern Ireland Protocol as signed with the EU to ensure the free flow of goods across the border," Nancy Pelosi said.

"If the UK violates that international treaty and Brexit undermines the Good Friday accord, there will be absolutely no chance of a US-UK trade agreement passing the Congress," she added.

Lenka
11 Sep 2020  #3,175

The arrangements are one thing (very important of course) but there is also the issue of being a serious partner. UK starts to look like very unreliable, flimsy ally.

cms neuf
11 Sep 2020  #3,176

The UK wants to renege in a treaty it signed 8 months ago - whether it was good or bad they signed it, having fought an election saying they were going to sign it.

This is not the EUs fault ! To the EU that agreement is a closed issue. The time to get flexibility from them was in January before it was signed.

Atch
11 Sep 2020  #3,177

UK starts to look like very unreliable, flimsy ally.

Exactly. Who's going to do business with a partner who has demonstrated that they can't be trusted to keep the terms of a contract they signed with a previous partner? The UK is trying to trade on their established reputation as one of the most developed and democratic nations in the world, but unfortunately, that reputation has already been undermined by the mess they made of the Brexit talks and the way it showed up the cracks in their society and their growing political instability.

Ironside
12 Sep 2020  #3,178

Who's going to do busines

Japan? USA?

Atch
12 Sep 2020  #3,179

USA?

Did you not read what I wrote earlier, where I quoted Nancy Pelosi:

"If the UK violates that international treaty and Brexit undermines the Good Friday accord, there will be absolutely no chance of a US-UK trade agreement passing the Congress," she added.

As for Japan, the deal they've struck is basically the same as the one they already had under EU terms, so that's ok, it's not an improvement but at least they've managed to maintain what they had, oh, except that there will be higher tariffs on UK cheese than on EU cheese!

Ironside
12 Sep 2020  #3,180

Nancy Pelosi:

Is not exactly an authority on USA foreign policy. Also uk doesn't have an intertest in undrermainidng the Good Feeder agreement and IF they have too chose between a deal with USA and NI they wouldn't be hold to ransom by few MPs or whole British population of that province that amount to 600 000 peps.

they've struck is basically the same

If it was a good deal ...


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