Brexit 2019 and Poland

And I think that is exactly what will happen.


Sane people do not want that.
Sane people already voted.
Why vote twice?

Interfered with vote?
What is there to fear if Brexiteers are so confident?

Why vote twice ? Because circumstances have changed and it is clear that leaving involves severe costs that were not made clear in the first referendum - simple to comprehend really

Because the voters did not do what the government wanted the first time.

It sounds almost as bad as the American Snowflake Democrat that still wont except the results of our 2016 election. All they do is whine, cry, resist and don't get anything accomplished for the people that voted them into office.

I Don't think they have.Only some peoples perception has changed.


Exactly, they need to implement the result of the first vote before even considering a second vote.


Our snowflakes are just as bad as yours!If not worse.

Ok so some people's perception of the circumstances has changed. Some people might perceive that access to the single market is only possible with freedom of movement and control by the European court. Some people might also perceive that the UK might break up as a result of Brexit. Even more people might perceive that instead of the 350m quid a benefit that it will cost the taxpayer many millions more per week.

All in all quite a lot of people with these perceptions.

The problem is that no-one wants to take responsibility for it. There's a few hardcore Leavers who will, but the majority of MP's don't want to be the ones taking responsibility if it all goes wrong. It's understandable really - if you're a Tory in an area where you've got Remainers breathing down your neck, do you want to sacrifice your political career for it?

You think so?
I don't.


There are less of them than Labour MP's in the reverse position.......

Does Labor represent working people or capital? It was my impression that former progressive elements in the UK have all been coopted by the ideology that the purpose of government is to serve capital.

Yes I do - it is obvious that whoever is in charge the UK will get a worse deal than the one it has now. Certainly in economic terms. In political terms then any benefit must be weighed against the split of the UK.

The results of the 2017 election means hard Brexit won't happen. So the result of the first vote will never be implemented even if there was someone willing to stand behind the result and implement this fiasco.

Yeah well...socialism is dead since '89! I would be highly suspicious of any party still fighting the old war...the corpes of the victims are still warm.

You don't have to be full on socialist to be advocate for the working class... especially since the working class has been under sustained attacks by capital for the last 30 years (or more).

Anytime I bring up economic or cultural issues you always go straight for armageddon scenarios.... that is not.... healthy.

She was never worse off than under a socialist regime, believe me! Socialism/Communism is a 200 years - ongoing failure (and it wasn't for the lack of possibilities). How often do you want the people to put through a nightmare of blood and tears and opression again and again till you accept that?

Come to think off...that makes me wonder why you protested that new EU copyright law so seriously...you must know that for enjoying living in a workers and farmers paradise heavy censorship with cruel punishments is one basic requirement.

Yeah...well...it works with the Nazis! "Never forget" and all that...

You're the one who's equating any concern for workers' rights with DDR style socialism, not me. I'm advocating for something like the New Deal that the US had during the period of its greatest material prosperity (and least social stratification).

Letting private businesses keep their profits private while socializing the costs is a terrible idea.

Neoliberalism is the worst of socialism and capitalism in one awful package - it puts the government in the service of private financial interests and treats the public like class enemies.

Trump, Brexit the yellow vests (and other movements) are all pushback against neoliberalism.

Why should an economic powerhouse like Germany have a working poor population at all?


Yeah, as soon as someone uses the word 'racist' 'nazi' or 'fascist' I tune them out as having no defenses for their arguments....

dw.com/en/germany-poverty-threatens-almost-20-percent-of-population/a-46100497

Of course, with what else should I equate it? With the Sovietunion? With Cuba? With Venezuela?


Of course, what is there to discuss? To think loud together about how to repeat the experience next time?

Had the real horrors suffered once not been enough?

you have severe problems and need psychological help... it's not normal for concern about workers' rights to immediately escalate to talk of nazis... it makes normal discussions of policy impossible, you're about as bad as dirk in a different direction...


social democracy? or is democracy a bad word since the DDR?

There is an option in the middle ground between hard core neoliberalism and socialism..it's called "social market economy" or "Ordo Liberalism", Germany fared very well with it during the last decades since the founding after WWII, also the scandinavian countries chose this way.

Maybe one should just avoid such burned nomers like "socialism" for good...people tend in a knee jerk reaction to run away when confronted with such slogans again.

Especially as this history is not that long past already and many people are still alive remembering their suffering...it's also a matter of respect to the millions of victims of that ideology!


Why? It didn't call itself for nothing "National SOCIALISM" !


What direction would that be?

Welcome to England in 2019. It's one of the most remarkable things about the English economy, to be honest.

At last. Corbyn nails his colours to the mast for a public vote if no agreement can be reached in parliament (which it clearly can't). Even he, with his perpetual dithering, trying to be all things to all men, can't retract his words herein, which are clear - that Labour has now come down in favour of a public vote as the endgame.

labour.org.uk/press/jeremy-corbyn-launches-labours-eu-election-campaign/

Hmmm...a good and important question, maybe even overdue and the true reason for the referendum and the current quagmire. But I doubt the Brits who don't know that yet will find the answer within the EU.

The Remainers answered that question for themselves already, the Leavers did too.

But an ongoing membership in the EU would falsify the outcome for the undecided fence sitter.

For that answer to be found the Brits need to leave and to look for themselves if and how a life outside the EU fits them...otherwise there will be always hanging a big shadow of doubt over the country and the enemies of the EU will always pose the "What if" question (right back to the time before the referendum).

....only IMHO of course...

Absolutely correct.
If we are wrong about leaving The EU then we need the proof and leaving is the only way to know for sure.

This is essential since the last 'referendum' was so flawed.


The relationship with the rest of our EU was never made clear. That part of the population who voted 'leave' did not know what they were voting for, and a significant part of that demographic are so economically and politically illiterate that they think a 'no-deal' leave would transport them back to the glory days of the past, not that such a thing ever existed. The very rich people people who paid for the ads and fund the 'leaver' campaigners of course make money out of instability and the misery of otthers.

*nods*

There are alot of important questions which need to be cleared first...and that won't happen easily nor quickly!

Oh dear oh dear oh dear......spouting that old leftie slogan Jon?
I thought you were more intelligent than that.......
Of course, in your opinion, the people that voted for Brexit were all uneducated,working class idiots....either too young to know anything or too old and wearing rose tinted glasses about the past (yes,you guys do like to have it both ways).

It is interesting that remainers paint a picture of stupidity on Brexit voters, but that the reverse is not true.
And the reason for that is not that Brexit voters do not think Remainers are gullible idiots who have fallen hook, line and sinker for The EU propaganda, but because Brexiteers will not lower themselves to your level.

We know you are gullible idiots.We don't need to go on and on about it ad nauseam.
The EU is a political machine that has run roughshod over the sovereignty of nation states and doesn't care....
The EU is about maintaining the lifestyles of some people in the political and support roles in The EU government.
The EU is about big business and the lobbying power they have.
In short, The EU is an undemocratic political institution designed for it's own purposes and with very little to benefit ordinary working people or smaller businessmen.

And before anyone says anyrhing about The EU being responsible for maintaining peace in Europe....they didn't,that was NATO,or more specifically, the nation you all hate so much, The USA.

What did The EU do in Yugoslavia?
And now they want an EU army?
What for?
Where will they be deployed?
Paris?
LOL!!
You lefties make me laugh.......

What did you expect them to do in Yugoslavia ? It was a 3 sided civil war 25 years ago at an extremely dangerous time in countires that were not even bordering the EU. The disarray in foreign policy was one of the reason why the Eu then tried to start talking with one voice.

It may be an uncomfortable fact but Brexit voters are on average older, less wealthy and less educated and yes many f them had no idea of the consequences of what they were voting for.

The same can be said of many remain voters.This is just a meaningless political slogan and extremely arrogant and elitist too.

Might be elitist but its still true

Might be arrogant but its still true

Remain was a vote for the status quo - a known quantity with all its faults. It attracted sensible responsible people - who tend to make up what you call the elite

Leave was a vote for a leap in the dark which none of its leaders was willing to implement themselves.

Britain escaping EU considering EU becoming less attractive. Central European states strengthen and uniting interests. Britain insist to be rule on its own or ruled by US. But, Brits can`t deny their geographical reality.