Brexit 2019 and Poland

Sorry, I misspelled NE for RI :)))


We are not acting like the maggot. We simply find it utterly ridiculous to make people think that the border between the RI and NI as something extremely special. Extremely special was the first flight to the Moon, but the border between Ireland and Northen Ireland should be treated just like any other external border between the EU and outer lands.


I would feel OK with this if Poland suddenly decided to leave the EU.

I don't believe you but if you're serious, as Doug says, educate yourself on the topic before you comment.

frankly it sounds like collective narcissism (oooo our problems have to be everyone's problems!!!!) and/or a dangerous lack of contact with reality...

there's a border and any agreement to say their isn't is a breach of ether Irish or UK sovereignty.... (or a treaty to pretend that reality doesn't exist)

if there's a border then it can be controlled, that's the nature (and entire reason for) national borders if there's no national border then the island is one country and millions of people are confused about which one they live in

a threat of violence if border controls are reinstated is simple terrorism and should not be tolerated.

Whose problems are you referring to? And who is everyone??

whoever's making such a dramatic production about the very idea of border controls between two sovereign countries...

Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland are two separate countries (or rather a country and a part of a country). If the good friday agreement was about pretending that wasn't the case and that the border isn't a border then it's clearly not viable and will have to go into that gentle night. Delusions are not a good basis for policy.

And that is the issue Maf - the GF agreement was an attempt, so far successful to solve a nuanced issue that had affected British politics for over 2 centuries and brought down several govts - there are still people in Northern Ireland that refer to themselves as Irish not British. They might be a small minority but then so ar ethe 160.000 people who get to choose Boris. .

Does a British citizen have less rights just because they don't live on the mainland ? Again to try a dumb comparison is a Hawaiian entitled to the same constitutional protection as some guy in Michigan ?

They should have thought through this question before the referendum.

so it solved nothing, it just kicked the can down the road....


of course, but that doesn't mean that movement between Hawaii and the mainland will necessarily always be as easy or unrestricted as between states on the mainland...

or similarly Alaska I can imagine situations where controls might have to be enacted on flights from Alaska to other states (or between US Territories and the US proper).

What happens if the UK does... nothing on the border when brexit rolls around?

The EU would put checks that products going into Ireland meet Single market standards ( which crosses one of mays red lines).

Any poll or Romanian wanting to enter the UK could do so via Northern Ireland - that crosses another one of mays red lines

So the UK needs to move on this redlines in order to find a solution. They announced the red lines about six months after Brexit without any researching of the consequences.

Yes it did kick the can down the road but 20 years of people not killing each other is a positive and now a whole generation has grown used to a normal non-violent situation.

Maf does have a point here.
People outside of the British Isles must be scratching their heads and wondering,
What is the problem?

why would the EU monitor products going from the UK into Ireland? _Who_ precisely would monitor this?


They can't now?

As an entry country Ireland would be responsible for that. And EU monitors everything that crosses the outside border. What is suprising about that?

Poles anc Romanians and everyone else can enter now with no checks but one of the maze promises when she said she would deliver Brexit was that the UK would reinstate border controls for people coming into the country. It is a totemic issue for many of the idiots that voted for Brexit

The whole Northern Ireland situation would be more manageable if it wasn't for the fact that the government is relying on the votes of Northern Ireland Protestant party for their five seat majority.

So while people outside might be scratching their head, people who can do maths and see that the government is reliant on these guys know that it is a problem that can only be resolved via another election or another referendum

An election it is then!
We already had a referendum..........

You have electiins every few years and you dont moan about that.

Whatever the British public chooses is fine by me but it's quite funny to treat the referendum like a sacred cow.

E.g. It's the will of the people (because it would be aliens voting in a second one :D)

I really didn't have you down as a dim so and so.
You are not interested in the Irish question. It does not affect you.
So why comment?
You are a Neo Con, who wants a weakened Europe. You are so going to be disappointed.
Enjoy your time in small town backward Poland. You fit right in. I actually admire you in many ways. That environment is not my cup of tea though.

Liberal and human Tri-City for me!

It was a simple in or out vote.
And don't let the remoaners tell you otherwise.
We can have another referendum, once they honour the first one.
It's called democracy.


I don't know what you mean here.
There would be No aliens voting in a second referendum.

I dont think Mafketis is a neocon - further up this thread he is encouraging people to listen to the chapo trap thing

That is what I meant. Argument 'People have voted' doesn't make sense as it would be British citizens voting.
Your argument 'This is democracy' is useless too- second referendum would be as democratic as the first one.

The only real arguments are:
We won by small margin and we are scared shi**ess we will lose next one especially after all this mess with negotiation
Both sides won't stop and it will be a constant referendum- solved by not doing the in/out referendum but one about available options: no deal, EEA, the deal, stay

Sorry, but he shouldn't even comment on this thread, because he is berefit of any knowledge and clearly loves his own voice.
Why would a Yank be so involved in the BREXIT question? Mafeketis is clearly taking the Michael, and with Irish blood in me, I am calling him out on it.

Absolutely. Count yourself lucky you don't listen to LBC radio and the constant shite from Tory MPs of, "Yes, I voted remain but the people voted to leave, and we must respect democracy"

If a Tory twat had set the right parameters in the refendendum in the first place we wouldn't be in this mess
Labour are piling pressure on Corbyn to declare for remain and he simply has to cave in eventually, or Labour will be cremated

How so?
Even if it went to remain that would be 1-1.
What then?
A THIRD referendum??
Your argument is preposterous.
We have to enact the result of the first referendum before even considering a second one,
otherwise referendums will be seen as pointless by the electorate.

Its a forum Doug - not a private golf club. He is one of the people here that has at least half a brain - rather him asking questions about Ireland than reading Dirks rants about Islam

I don't think he is either.
He asks good questions and makes good points,

Fair enough. Glad that he's interested.

Because I live in Europe and I think the EU is dangerously mismanaging Brexit (just as it continues to mismanage Greece). The EU at present can't bend and things that can't bend..... break. The EU has done massive good for the continent but those days are essentially over and it is of minor or no utility to most countries now in its current ossified form. Has RODO made you any safer or made using the internet any easier?

And I hate the effin' neocons worse than Hitler and Stalin put together, I enjoy listening to the chapo guys but they're wrong about a lot of economic and political stuff (and the Ireland show was full of present and past American stereotypes of the Irish - except for the stuff about lying I hadn't heard that before...)

If he's genuinely interested, then he should take the time to read about the history of the border, the Good Friday Agreement etc. before making foolish and insulting comments.


They are not a small minority. About half a million identify as Irish, compared to around 800.000 as British. If you count those who identify as Northern Irish, then the total is well over a million, so it actually outnumbers those who consider themselves British.


I'm probably the only person on the forum who actually voted for the Good Friday Agreement. I had to think about it a lot before I decided to vote in favour. I wasn't happy that it meant Ireland giving up its claims to Northern Ireland as Irish territory but ultimately I felt the sacrifice was worth it in order to end the war and start a process by which Irish unity could eventually be achieved. The Good Friday Agreement is not intended to be a permanent solution. It's an interim measure that has been a great success on the whole, changing everyday life for the people of NI in a way that you can't imagine.

As I said already that all Brexit can if handled badly (As it will be - see Murphy's law) spell lots of problems and issues for NI. People in Britain don't give a flying copulation about NI. The EU is a bad news and the uk might be doing the wise move for the wrong reason but of the issue of the Northern Ireland is not sorted out with care all that can blew out into their face...

You know that for a fact, how?
I do. And you didn't live through the IRA bombing campaigns did you?

It's finally getting interesting again. The Unions have switched to support a second referendum. Labour are going to be proactive against a Tory No deal and campaign for a second referendum on a commons deal, and Boris is likely to be the worst PM in history (and one of the shortest governing)

I refuse to be believe that, given the choice and the knowledge of the damge it would cause, that the British people would vote for a second time to leave the European Union.

I've heard Boris is going to be the next PM and he will make Britain leave on the deadline, with or without a deal. There won't be any time for a referendum...

And frankly after all the Corbyn-shenanigans I'm not sure I would want him in a pro-EU camp at all!