Poland under pressure of EU to accept more asylum seeking refugees

Let the lazy asses starve then but as long as Socialism ENABLES them to survive without working the answer is not bringing in refugees that will work.

This is a video clip that may help you understand the refugee's.
It's long, but you only need to see part of it to understand the problem !
This is what is really happening that you will never see on primetime media
..... after viewing you decide for yourself.... To view, click on the link below:

youtube.com/embed/44vzMNG2fZc

Fortunately, those of us in Poland that pay taxes decide, not Americans who gleefully look down on others.

According to Eurostat, 170,000 Ukrainians came to Poland for fewer than 12 months in 2013 while government records show that 630 settled permanently.

next.ft.com/content/f2bb320c-9b05-11e4-882d-00144feabdc0

theguardian.com/world/2015/may/13/ukraines-refugees-find-solace-in-poland-europes-most-homogenous-society

Last year (meaning 2014 as this was published 2015) Poland issued 331,000 permits for short-term work to Ukrainians, up 50% on 2013, says Marta Jaroszewicz, a migration expert at the Centre For Eastern Studies (OSW), an independent Warsaw thinktank funded by the Polish government.

theguardian.com/world/2015/may/13/ukraines-refugees-find-solace-in-poland-europes-most-homogenous-society

These are temporary workers - not residents which is what the figure I cited was explaining. These Ukranians come to Poland but very few settle there - as you can see less than 700 did in 2013. This is much like Polish workers would come to Germany to work on farms for the summer or like the Mexicans who come to Chicago for the summer to work landscaping, live 12 people to an apartment, and then go back to Mexico for the rest of the year.

You're right - there were 331k work permits issued to Ukranians in 2014 - but that still represents less than .01% of the entire population. Even the 500k figure is still .013% of the total 38 million population. Not exactly 'droves of people' or even a significant part of the labor force. Adding to diversity - perhaps slightly, but still a tiny minority in Poland and a minority of the estimated 26 million Polish labor force.


No it's because all the Polish nannies, construction workers, and agriculture people went to England or the west for those jobs. Then they come back to Poland and live the high life on a nanny's wage. The majority of the people, at least in Wroclaw, who have a decent bank account and a German car made their money abroad. You'll have a 25 year old electrician who's made his career in London with more cash and a nicer car than a Polish attorney.

The jobs that Ukranians and Russians typically took in Poland was truck driving - even in my time. Perhaps they expanded to other fields, which I'm not arguing, but again this isn't 'drove of people.' The situation of Poland isn't like the US, UK, or even Kuwait or Qatar where a significant part of the labor force is foreigners. Less than 1% of the total population isn't exactly 'droves of people stealing Polish jobs'

As you're aware, I'm having a big issue on my property in Poland with a Swedish company Skanska. I can tell you after many visits with them I can't say that I've met any of the lower rung employees - like the truck drivers, ditch diggers, etc. being Ukranian. They were all Polish guys. It could be though because it's a Swedish company operating in Poland, I'm sure if it was a Polish company then perhaps yes they would hire Ukranians as they could pay them less.

Permanent in this sense is a specific legal term referring to the acquisition of permanent residency - which takes at least 5 years. Someone can move permanently to Poland but not be permanently resident in the eyes of the law.


Again - temporary in the eyes of the law is a very specific concept. It's now possible to obtain 3 year 'temporary' residence permits - which all residence permits are if they aren't permanent residence permits.


No, it's entirely different, like I've explained above.


You sure about your maths?

331k work permits issued out of an estimated 38.5 million people in Poland means 0.86% of the population. When you consider that Muslims only make up 0.9% of people living in the USA, then you get the idea as to how many are turning up. If we take the 500,000 number that was mentioned last year, then it's 1.3% of the population is Ukrainian.

Remember that work permits don't tell the full story - there are plenty of Ukrainians working on the side on short term tourist visas / student visas.


Not really. That's an outdated view from 2004 and really isn't the case anymore. The manual workers that went to the West tend to stay, and in Wrocław, no electrician working in London is going to earn more than an attorney here. For a start, a reasonable family property in Wrocław is now pushing the 100,000 Euro mark - which is difficult enough for Londoners to save, let alone some Polish electrician.


They're not stealing jobs, they're merely taking them because they're willing to do the work. It's nearly impossible to find good physical Polish workers these days - even retail shops are struggling in the major cities. Wrocław in particular is quite remarkable for how many Ukrainians/Russians have integrated - it's normal to encounter them working in shops, in hotels, etc etc. The funny thing is that you normally don't notice them unless you're paying close attention, because they have a habit of learning Polish ridiculously quickly.

Just watch. I'm willing to be that we'll see the Ukrainian/Belarusian/Russians number at least 5% by 2020.

That's fine - let them... still is a TINY MINORITY plus very few of those people will gain permanent/temporary residency. Also, those 500k people were issued work permits for 12 months or less - it doesn't necessarily mean they're staying in Poland.


How is it different? They're being issued temporary 12 month or less work permits. It mentions nothing about temporary or permanent resident figures - with the exception of the 600 that settled.

Sorry you're right I entered too many zeros. Still though - 1% of the population is nothing. Countries like Russia, Qatar, US, UK, Germany, France, etc. have a very diverse work force - 1% of the population, or even 5% of the population - does not make the country diverse... it's not even a double digit figure

theguardian.com/world/2015/may/13/ukraines-refugees-find-solace-in-poland-europes-most-homogenous-society

Notice the last 4 words - EUROPE'S MOST HOMOGENOUS SOCIETY... most Poles want to keep it that way...

Also it specifically states: The migrants have largely been welcomed, with some taking jobs vacated by Poles who have left for western Europe. But the numbers are a new phenomenon in a country more used to emigration than immigration.

So yes, perhaps a couple hundred thousand Ukranians are taking the old Polish jobs that people left to make more money in UK or Germany.. but these Ukranians appear to also be returning back to their country and not staying in Poland as evident by the low number of Ukranians in the Polish census and the fact that it only shows 600 settled.

"Poland is one of the most homogenous societies in the EU. Only 0.2% of the population are foreigners," says Jaroszewicz, of the OSW thinktank."

Statements like these, the census, and by your own admission the 500k temporary workers (1% of the population) do not make Poland a diverse society... sorry but that's the reality.

Poles don't have an issue with the Ukranian refugees because we have similar customs and even a similar language, but we do not want Muslims or Africas.

That number is simply not true, as I've already shown.


Except you do want them. I don't see any attempts by Poland to limit their access to Poland, and in fact, many Polish educational establishments actively work to bring people from Africa/Asia into Poland to "study".


You don't really understand the law, do you? Temporary residence permits used to be issued for 1 year (2 years in very specific circumstances) up until recently - hence they all fell under the "12 months or less" bracket. It's only in recent times that they started handing them out for longer periods, but most physical workers will still only get their "temporary" residence permission for 12 months at a time.

So the vast majority of them will have either a long term visa or temporary residency. Once they've been here for 5 years working, permanent residency is a breeze.


The 600 are the only ones that obtained permanent residency. The rest are long term resident, but temporary in the sense of "need to obtain permission to change work, need to keep obtaining residence permits, etc".


You're mixing up the numbers. Anyone with a temporary residence permit is settled by definition - it's a long term permit, not a short term permit. Permanent residency is a status, and I assure you that there are plenty of Ukrainians here that have no intention of returning. Why would they, when Poland happily grants residence permits to physical workers?

Really, and here I thought it was the Polish citizen's that vote on such matters that decide and not ex-pats that try to speak for Poland.

Sorry Johnny, but plenty of us vote in Poland regularly. Taxpayers also have a voice regardless if they vote or not, which is why we have influence and random American trolls don't.

Do you know, Johnny, that EU citizens who are resident in Poland can vote in Polish municipal elections and also for Polish candidates in EU parliamentary elections? (I suppose same applies to Poles living in other EU countries).

By your own words, 500k people were issued work permits. Again, a TINY MINORITY - 1% of the population.


They don't mind granting it to Ukranians, and nor do I. Muslims and Africans are another story - they won't contribute to the system like Ukrainians do.

Again, accepting 500k Ukranians doesn't make Poland a diverse society and even if that number was doubled, Poland would remain one of the most, possibly the most, homogenous country in Europe. Even Belarus has a larger foreign population than Poland.

en.europeinsight.net/polish-business-calls-for-residence-permits-to-ukrainian-immigrants

3. The bill should also address the Vietnamese and Belarusians, two nations distinguished by their strong work ethic and peaceful assimilation.

The Poles don't mind Ukranians or even these other groups - but they don't want Muslims and Africas since they tend not to assimilate and contribute to the society - unlike Ukranians.

According to the ZPP's information, there are currently about 650 thousand Ukrainian citizens working legally in the country

- again still even this figure makes Ukranians less than 2% of the population - a small minority. If it was even 5-10% then yes, that'd be a significant minority.

Nonetheless, thankfully Poland remains ethnically and religiously homogeneous and it appears it will remain that way for years to come.

Tiny minority? That 1% is pretty much all economically active in some way, so let's use the 310k figure. We know there's 17.1 million economically active in Poland from the GUS data, so that means that 1.81% of the economically active population happens to be Ukrainian. Numbers are growing rapidly while the amount of economically active Poles is falling, so your "tiny minority" could easily become 5% of the economically active population sooner rather than later.


Oh, but they do. They study here, they work here. Many of them establish businesses, too.

edit : you've given the 650,000 number now for Ukrainians. That means 3.8% of the active workforce is Ukrainian. Not a small number...

Not even in the double digits. Yes it is a small number compared to the immigrant work forces of other countries. That's like saying less than 4 employees out of 100 employees are Ukranian. You have countries like Saudi Arabia where 1/3 of the work force is foreign - that is significant... 3.8% is not. Also, many of these people don't live permanently in Poland by your own admission.


Yes, there are some Muslims and Africans that are entrepreneurs - like the Pakistanis that sell 2 EU beers along the beach to tourists or those who open up market stalls that sell t-shirts. However, by en large, the economic migrants are NOT helping the economic situation of the countries they are in. If they were helping the economy, then Germany, Sweden and other countries wouldn't be complaining of the costs of housing, feeding, and taking care of these people.

Again, you're talking about a tiny fraction of economic migrants from African or Muslim countries that actually assimilate and using that example to state that's the case with the majority when that's clearly not true. If these people were so great, then why are so many Germans so upset at Merkel for bringing them all in? I don't think marching down the street with Sharia 4 Belgium and Hisbah patrols and like our Pakistan_Lahore friend in the random chat forum, who stated that he wants to find Polish women and force them to convert to Islam, show that these people are a cancer on the society with no respect for the existing customs, traditions, and religions of the local people.

You realize that if you went to the countries of these people you defend so much like Iran or Afghanistan, they'd totally chastise you and possibly even throw you in jail or possibly kill you if they found out you were gay?

You still don't understand the difference between living permanently in Poland and the legal status of permanent residency, do you? The two are not the same thing.


So you're admitting that Poland taking in - for example - 50,000 migrants would be absolutely insignificant then?


Funny thing is, I've read exactly the same stuff online about Polish people in the UK.

It wouldn't make a big difference overall, but no we don't want parasites of a totally different culture, religion, and language in our country. Ukrainians have a lot more in common with us than Afghanis or Somalis. We don't want Muslims trash that will sit around at home popping out 10 babies and living off Poland's welfare because they don't feel like working like the Ukranians. They can go to Turkey, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Egypt and tons of other countries that more closely resemble their culture - Poland isn't one of them.

Some economic immigrants are fine, others are shyt. It's that simple.

Couldn't be more true... Ukranians assimilate to the countries they move to and contribute to the system, Muslims and Africans tend not to assimilate and are a drain on the system. Plain and simple.

You don't see the German right wing groups asking to kick out the Poles and Ukrainians that moved there - they're complaining about the Muslims and African migrants because of all the problems they're causing in the country.

Could you perhaps provide some statistics on the economic impact of Muslims and Africans in Poland? I've never heard of them being a drain on the Polish system.


Sorry, but you're wrong. It used to be quite normal for Polish people to get beaten up in Eastern Germany after 1990, and it's still not quite safe in many border towns for Poles to walk alone after dark.

Because there are still few of them. Mass immigration of Muslims/Africans have proven to be a disaster, It's as obvious as that water is wet.

Just read: next Thursday, London could elect a ... Muslim mayor (45-year-old guy of Pakistani origin). If so, I don't know how Poles living there are going to react.... ;) . He seems to be favorite.... "lol"

Oh! That's told Delph then. I guess he will be leaving PF, with his tail between his legs.

Some of us understand Poland a hell of a lot better than you do buster - having actually lived here for 23 years. But some of us come on PF for amusement and to swop notes on Poland - not for a lecture. Fun as your essays are - they are for a blog, and not a forum. IMO.

Good for you, but do you even speak Polish or have Polish blood? You are still looking at Poland from an outsider's view. Having lived in Poland for 23 years as you claim, you would know that the majority of the population do not want economic migrants from Muslim or African countries to come in. You would know that Poland is a very ethnically and religiously homogeneous and most Poles want to keep it that way.

'Poles don't want immigrants. They don't understand them, don't like them'
Couldn't of said it better - theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/02/poles-dont-want-immigrants-they-dont-understand-them-dont-like-them

"We don't want terrorists here," the Polish pensioner says, when asked about EU plans to resettle refugees more broadly across the continent. "Have you seen what they're doing in the west?"

A recent survey for the television station TVN found that two-thirds of Poles share the same hostility towards immigrants expressed by the Warsaw grandmother cited above.

If they didn't want them to come in, don't you think they would demand the government stop issuing endless visas/residence permits to such people? It says a lot that the new government has made no attempt whatsoever to change the criteria.

Like I've said - they are allowing Ukrainians, Belorussians, and Vietnamese to come in and work. Economic migrants from Africa and Muslim countries are another story.

They aren't issuing these work permits to Africans or Syrians/Iraqis/etc.

You live in Poland - you ought to know how strong the opposition is to even accept a couple thousand migrants from Muslim and African countries.

But they are. Where did you get the impression that they aren't? The rules are applied equally to Ukrainians and Africans. The law is so open that anyone earning minimum wage can obtain a work permit, after all.

and some like yourself to get angry


Private Polish lessons after living here for 23 years, go and figure...


Indeed and they should not be allowed.

Actually it isn't. The rules differ specifically for Ukraine, Moldova and a few other countries. Africans do not have the same priviledges as Ukranians. Actually, the government recently even made it even easier for Ukranians to come in and work for Poland temporarily:

Citizens of Belarus, Moldova, the Russian Federation, Ukraine and the Republic of Armenia may take up employment without obtaining a work permit for a period not exceeding 6 months within 12 consecutive months on the basis of a declaration of intention to entrust a job to a foreigner

migrant.info.pl/Documents_entitling_a_foreigner_to_work_in_Poland.html

It's different for people from Muslim and African countries. Also, I haven't seen any Polish newspaper outlets saying 10,000 camel jockies given work permits or 5,000 skinnies to work in polish fields.

For short term work, yes. But anyone wishing to move to Poland for more than 6 months will be bound by the same rules.

I assure you that there's plenty of Arabs turning up in Poland on student visas.

Is this supposed to be good news? The state of the Arab world does not make me hopeful about any place that has large numbers of Arabs in it (don't even think of playing the colonial card - they're 90 % responsable for their own problems).

Educated individuals who can/will work and integrate are fine (I've known a number who make positive contributions) - but that doesn't fit the profile of large scale Arab immigration anywhere.

One thing that strikes me is that Arabs are very, very proud people. I wonder if that's the reason why they tend to not integrate too well, because a lack of education combined with pride is always going to be a complete disaster.

Either way, my view on non-EU immigration is the same regardless of where someone is from - if you're well educated and willing to work, Poland should welcome you with open arms. Badly educated people with an attitude problem are not welcome, regardless if they're Americans, Arabs or whatever.

Yes, that is true - much to the decent Poles' embarassment - but Poland can always evolve over time, and wake up to the new European politik - especially when said grandmother kicks the bucket.


But you don't have a voice. You don't live here - or contribute in any way.