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Religion discussion - muslims, jews, buddhist, and christians



Casual Observer
31 Jan 2018  #61

Ah another progressive idiot spewing his ignorance.

No, just someone who was not brought up (indictrinated or culturally soaked) in either of those religions, so perhaps someone with a more objective view of their similarities than a person raised within the bubble of either doctrine.

Dirk diggler
31 Jan 2018  #62

Christianity and islam have very little in common. For one christianity doesnt say its okay to behead disbelievers, kill gays, take 4 wives, have sex with 9 year olds or however old aisha was, say women should be covered and priests dont tell the congregation to overrun countries/continents or that men and women should be seperated in society.

Christianity also never says that non believers should either convert, pay a tax, or be killed

Modern Islam is a strange mix of religion, politics, war, and sociology. And the sunnis have taken it to the extreme in europe and arent grateful whatsover to their gracious hosts. No instead of thanking france germany belgium sweden etc for taking them in and giving rhem money too, they march down the street with sharia signs, attempt to implement their islamic view of society, and reject the social and societal norms of europe. Of course its not all but nonetheless it wasnt just a few people who caused france to go into a state of emergency, it was tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of.mostly young muslims

I have respect for the shia yet the sunnis are the ones who are the enemy of the west. Shia are the ones fighting groups like is and al nusra. Theyre rhe ones protecting christians in syria and lebanon. Also the vast majority of terror attacks are by sunnis not shia. Yet the west, mainly because of Israel, portrays the factions in lebanon and all of iran as the enemy. The difference is sunni groups like al nusra is and tons of small ones in iraq syria and lebanon are killing christians, taking their homes, and blowing up churches. Yet its groups like hezbollah and plm forces protecting christians esp in lebanon. Yet the zionist media and government has made christians think theyre the enemy and never reports on how popular Hezbollah is among christians in lebanon.

Casual Observer
31 Jan 2018  #63

For one christianity doesnt say its okay to behead disbelievers, kill gays,

The bible on killing gays:

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them." Leviticus Chapter 20 verse 13

The bible on killing unbelievers:

"If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die." Deuteronomy 17

Not beheading, I grant you. But stoning to death is hardly a more tolerant approach.

The bible is quite similar in this stuff to the Koran. The difference is how people read and enact it today. True, there are sects in the Middle East that take the Koran literally, and try to enact it. But plenty of small-scale sects also take a lot of the bible literally - that's why we call them findamentalists. And the Polish Catholic church takes it more literally than e.g. the Anglican or Dutch Protestant church, when it comes to things like gay people, women's rights etc.

It's not black and white, with Koran bad and bible good. Both are crazy, violent, poetic, scary, beatutiful books, written thousands of years ago. Today there is a sliding scale in how literally people take these books, from your British state (where head of state is defender of the faith yet gay marriage and abortion is allowed) to your Polish state which is supposed to have separation of church and state yet where neither gay marriage or abortion are allowed due to Catholic doctrine. You can see almost the full range within US states. And then there's the muslim origin states, ranging from easy-going ones like Turkey (until Erdogan) to your hardcore fundamentalists like Saudi.

So I don;t think you can claim one religion is more 'humane' than another. It's not the books that are the problem, it's the people. And there are plenty of intolerant people on both sides. I agree, the most intolerant state-sanctioned interpretations are in islamic countries, but let's not pretend that Christian countries are hunky dory edens of tolerance. I'm neither Catholic nor Muslim, and to be frank, as a native European, I am wary of both. You have to remember that North Europe's religious wars were Catholic vs Protestant long before the muslims turned up ;)

Dirk diggler
31 Jan 2018  #64

All that stuff is from the old testament, not the new which christians put more emphasis on esp as every gospel at mass is a passage from the new testament. R

Youre right though its not the books mostly its the people. You wont hear even the most fundamental christian chanting praise jesus as he beheads, stones a person or drives a truck into a crowd, etc. The same cannot be said of muslims and allah akbar. Over 20k people have been killed in 2017 thanks to radical muslims. The same figures cant be applied to radical christians. Theres no fundamentalist Christians blowing themselves up, throwing gays off roofs, or demanding non christians to covert, pay a tax, or be killed like muslims do.

Well ttyl, trumps state of the union is on. This shall be interesting. Hope its as good as his populist 'defense of western society, will to fight against all threats' speech in warsaw.

Casual Observer
31 Jan 2018  #65

Theres no fundamentalist Christians blowing themselves up, throwing gays off roofs, or demanding non christians to covert, pay a tax, or be killed like muslims do.

Actually, I think there is quite a bit of that in some African countries, where they tend to take things quite literally.

not the new which christians put more emphasis

Yes, the moderates, right? And in islam there are also moderates, where people drink beer, don't wear headscarves and don't kill people. Whereas in Uganda we have evangelicial Christians killing gay people (incidentally, stoked by America religious nutjobs: theguardian.com/world/2011/jan/27/ugandan-gay-rights-activist-murdered )

So there are shades of grey among Christians AND Muslims, and it's wrong of you to condemn everyone and say "nope, they're all too dangerous, blacklist everyone". On the same basis, the UK could do the same to Americans based on the speeches of Mike Pence, who denounces rights that Brits and Dutch and Swedes take for granted, and by comparison is an intolerant bigot. Should all Americans or all Christians be tarred with the opinions of Mike Pence? Given the chance, I'm pretty sure he'd like to take an electrode to Elton John...

Casual Observer
31 Jan 2018  #66

Theres no fundamentalist Christians ...demanding non christians to covert, ...or be killed like muslims do.

Seems that there is, wikipedia even had a page on it: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

Cases form the USA include fundamentalists murdering doctors for giving abortions, bombing of gay clubs, attacks on different faiths.

Pretty high-end stuff in Africa and India too - in Uganda there was even a Christian version of a sort of Islamic State movement, the Lord's Resistance Army, who used child soldiers. Seems there's plenty of it about.

Not so 'holier than thou' after all!

mafketis
31 Jan 2018  #67

yeah, casual is harry, he hid it pretty well for a while..... but harry

Casual Observer
31 Jan 2018  #68

Nope, I'm pretty sure mods have checked the ISPs, seeing as you keep saying this. Unless this harry has suddenly been reading up on forestry and woodpeckers and moving countries?

As a recently departed man once sang: "check the record, check the record, check the guy's track record".

Ziemowit
31 Jan 2018  #69

casual is harry, he hid it pretty well for a while

I would say it is not Harry, but the swiftnes with which CO has denied it may perhaps suggest otherwise.

mods have checked the ISPs

One person may use several IPs ...

dolnoslask
31 Jan 2018  #70

One person may use several IPs ...

One person has been given his last chance behave, lets hope he does this time.

mafketis
31 Jan 2018  #71

Cases form the USA include fundamentalists murdering doctors for giving abortions, bombing of gay clubs, attacks on different faiths

numbers count and US based Christian terrorism is a marginal and tiny thing compared to that of some other religious groups

Why should Americans be let into Poland when they are statistically more dangerous people than islamic immigration,

statistically dangerous in Europe? odd idea, and actual gun crime levels in the US are not that high once you control from drug/gang violence, party shootings* and suicides (Which tend to be lumped in as 'gun crime) I, frankly, don't much care about drug gang members shooting each other, I only care that their aim is bad and thye end up killing those uninvolved in their filthy business.

*party shootings - mostly a black and/or latino thing - somebody gets upset at someone else at a party (usually for very stupid reason) leaves, gets a gun comes back and starts shooting blindly into the crowd

Ziemowit
31 Jan 2018  #72

person has been given his last chance

But we cannot be sure if it is THAT person or not, Dolno.

Crow
31 Jan 2018  #73

What sestra Beata actually doing these days?

Casual Observer
31 Jan 2018  #74

party shootings - mostly a black and/or latino thing

Interesting how you and Dirk refer to 'black' and 'latino/hispanic' as if they're somehow not the same passport-holding American citizens as Polish-American or Donald Trump. If they're Americans, whatever their ancestry, then they're valid in the overall stats. If you want to start racial profiling within a population, then perhaps Europe should just ban white American cops, who are disproportionately more likely to kill black people than an average citizen. There's a lot of black Dutch and British people who might like to do a bit of racial profiling of their own.

Or, we just don't use racial profiling.

mafketis
1 Feb 2018  #75

The mods deleted my answer to this so I'm reposting it (new version)

you and Dirk refer to 'black' and 'latino/hispanic' as if they're somehow not the same passport-holding American citizens

Different ethno-racial groups have very different crime rates (over all and for specific types of crimes). Not keeping track of things like that means a country has to make some policy in a state of ignorance (not a good thing).

don't use racial profiling.

Racial profiling is a very useful tool as long as it's not over-used. Racial (and other) profiling helped drastically reduce certain types of crime in NYC, try it, you'll be safer!

Poland should absolutely do some kinds of racial and ethnic profiling. If counterfitting equipment is is found (and there's a couple of russian newspapers lying around with it) should the cops put greater effort into looking for recent arrivals from the former USSR or look at the general population?

Dirk diggler
1 Feb 2018  #76

Christian radical groups didnt kill over 20k people in 2017 around the world, muslim groups did.

And no ones racial profiling. Those are fbi stats and facts. Stats and facts dont have feelings.

But yes racial profiling can become an issue. I have black friends some of whom live totally normal lives yet get pulled over 20 times a year just driving. Perhaps its the cops racist, perhaps he knows fbi stats show blacks commit majority of homicides esp in my city its like 80% and is being cautious and wants to.get illegal guns off the street of which theres a hell of a lot more than legal registered ones.

Its the same with poland. Yes we absolutely can refuse entry to a specific group of people and thats exactlt what the citizens want and governnent is doing. Such is our sovereign right much like israel japan russia saudi arabia mexico iran and any number of countries

Dirk diggler
1 Feb 2018  #77

Oh and as far as your cops shooting blacks comment several of those shootings werent even committed by a white cop. There were atleast 2 high profile cases where the cop was black and one in i believe california where thr cop was asian or latino or something but def not white. And second, there is no sort of vendetta by cops against blacks. There have been far more whites shot by cops roughly 3x as much like for example cops shooting a white teen who didnt take his head meds and was running naked through thr forest with a kitchen knife. Why doesnt blm protest the black gangs shooting each other which kills hundreds if not thousands of innocent blacks every year all across their country

Theres a famous video of a cop accidently shooting his undercover partner in some bust bc the suspect got violent or whatever. These are split second decisions and imo its better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. This is coming from someone who hates cops btw...but i can understand their job is dangerous

Atch
1 Feb 2018  #78

e for example cops shooting a white teen who didnt take his head meds and was running naked through thr forest with a kitchen knife.

That wouldn't be Ktos by any chance would it? :D Oh wait, it couldn't be, he's in Australia...........

Dirk diggler
1 Feb 2018  #79

I dont think Australia has many forests except tasmania idk i never been. But no it was in a resort town in the us. Poor kid got home from college or something and like forgot his meds back on campus or whatever and the mom tried to explain that to the cop. The trigger happy cop ended up getting fired but immediately got a job in the next department over. That kind of stuff is pretty common in the us.

TheOther
1 Feb 2018  #80

I dont think Australia has many forests except tasmania idk i never been.

You are wrong.

agriculture.gov.au/abares/forestsaustralia/profiles/australias-forests

Mr Grunwaldski
27 Apr 2018  #81

moved from]

@Crow
Yes I am catholic

Crow
27 Apr 2018  #82

Its alright man. We all received our share of Helenization, Romanization and Jewization. So, let Jesus and Svetovid share their rule over us. Tolerance if good for Gods, same as is good for mortals.

Dirk diggler
27 Apr 2018  #83

Crow tolerance is how everything started out. In the 90s and 00s western society was told to 'tolerate' the gays, trannies, illegal migrants, muslims and those who refused to integrate and contribute to society. Gradually tolerance was no longer enough - now the majority had to conform to the minorities demands. Now we're told we have to not only respect and tolerate things that are against our own values, but to cherish them and celebrate then even if its contrary to what we believe. And if you dont then you're a bigot, nazi, islamaphobe, homophobe, etc. Funny because these people were never told to respect or tolerate the culture and socirty of the majority.

Even now muslims plainly say they hate the i word - integration - and dont want to integrate to european society. In fact they believe we should bend our society to accommodate them. And it all started with 'Tolerance'

Muslim leader hates when her fellow muslims are asked to integrate:

youtu.be/WtN2gIKBHW8

Lyzko
27 Apr 2018  #84

"Tolerance" is but merely another word for "laxness":-) Notice the pc word choice; ignoring an outstretched hand instead of responding properly with a nice, firm handshake, is nowadays dubbed being low key etc....

Lovely, eh?

classic34
28 Apr 2018  #85

to tolerate means actually to bear with something that is wrong or bad. E.g I tolerate someone's fault.

Christianity is the true faith and religion.

Islam is a heresy and a counterfeit religion. It is Satan working through a society and blinding its followers,

Islam darkened much of Europe and did little to develop it i.e the Balkans area.

Hinduism is false also. It deliberately makes it impossible for millions of its people to escape poverty.

The poverty in these cultures is all their fault. Not due to white mans colonial legacy.

Crow
28 Apr 2018  #86

Christianity is the true faith and religion.

I agree. Just don`t sound as inquisitor.

Plus, little bit of Svetovid is just fine. Something OUR in whole thing.

Crow tolerance is how everything started out.

Yes. You are right here. Sarmatian spiritual class gave too much space to Roman priests and look what happened later. Roman priests returned with legions and first thing they usually did was to hunt down and slaughter members of Sarmatian spiritual class.

Lyzko
28 Apr 2018  #87

Christianity is after all of Jewish derivation.

Marino_Kat
29 Apr 2018  #88

guys...Islam is simply the most pathetic on this planet. It is totally against any greek value. Greece fought hard to hold Islam out of Europe and later on Greece fought hard to get rid of the Turks here.

Aristoteles said: "Tolerance is the last virtue of a dieing man". And thats true. Why should i tolerate something? When i can remove it i dont have to tolerate ****.

Lyzko
29 Apr 2018  #89

The Arabs brought both higher mathematics in the form of algebra as well as medicine in the figure of the physician Rhazes to Western Europe:-)

Don't let's let extremist radicals who don't represent true Islam to spoil the entire bunch!

Crow
29 Apr 2018  #90

yes, Lyz. That`s sane teaching of Yin Yang

yy

In every `good` you have something `evil` and in every `evil` you have something `good`.


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Off-Topic / Religion discussion - muslims, jews, buddhist, and christianstop