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Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 13



Torq
22 Jul 2024  #91

@BB

I mentioned Greece and Rome but I wasn't talking about Goths, Vandals and ancient history in relation to Germanic tribes. I was talking exactly about the current Anglo-Saxon unity of USA, Great Britain, Canada, Australia and New Zealand - when was the last time any of those five countries were at war against each other, not allied and acting together?

It's that unity, even if fairly recent, that gives them strength.

Bratwurst Boy
22 Jul 2024  #92

I was talking exactly about the current Anglo-Saxon unity of USA, Great Britain, Canada, Australia and New Zealand

Hmm....I would rather call them as beneficiary....not the builders of western civilization. Many talk about a certain decline also....maybe it is all connected...*shrugs*

I was just saying that it doesn't need a tree-dancing-Kumbaya to be successful!

Another example...the Eastern Bloc...looked huge, but it was rotting from the inside and fell...could still happen to the EU too...

Torq
22 Jul 2024  #93

could still happen to the EU too...

It will happen if the Green Khmers are allowed to wreak havoc in the economy! :(

Bratwurst Boy
22 Jul 2024  #94

...I have hope their high-time is over....they are no longer winning elections, nowhere!

Don't you wish also sometimes to have a look into the future? A few centuries or so? :)

Torq
22 Jul 2024  #95

I have hope their high-time is over.

*fingers crossed*

Don't you wish also sometimes to have a look into the future?

Hmm... I'm not so sure. ;)

Bratwurst Boy
22 Jul 2024  #96

See? From a strong and powerful viewpoint we would have nothing to fear...but we are no longer so sure, aren't we...all peaceful and unified.

Maybe there will be real conflict again....maybe even needed....who knows....

But who cares, I'm to old for this *** now! :)

Bobko
22 Jul 2024  #97

Put the di*k away from me.

Apologies, brate - I am putting it away.

you took the penis and wave with it like with propeller

Once again, I apologize. However, I'm sure you noticed that even Slavic leaders frequently refer to genitalia when discussing our global situation. In this list, are Radoslaw Sikorsky, Vladimir Putin, Milos Zeman - and others.

Penis is something everybody can understand - from the common worker, to the most august member of the ruling elite. To speak in terms of penis, is not to spin a propeller, but to speak plainly and honestly.

As for Slavs...

Hahaha, I love this video clip!

They say, that the Anglos are the world champions at "taking the ****" out of themselves, or engaging in "creative cunting between friends"... But I think, Slav's can give them here a head start.

Torq
22 Jul 2024  #98

Maybe there will be real conflict again....maybe even needed

I would say so too if it wasn't for nuclear weapons. Healthy conventional war is not that bad, but with thousands of nukes on both sides it can turn out to be a total disaster.

I'm to old for this *** now! :)

Lucky you. I'm in reserve for 18 more years, so no wars until 2042, please.

taking the ****" out of themselves, or engaging in "creative cunting between friends"... (...) Slav's can give them here a head start.

Crow will have a heart attack reading this. :D

Bratwurst Boy
22 Jul 2024  #99

Lucky you. I'm in reserve for 18 more years, so no wars until 2042, please.

Oh...there won't be....it's just me playing with thoughts....but I better stop that now, nothing good comes out of it! ;)

*takes helmet*

Bobko
22 Jul 2024  #100

France, Italy and Spain

Funny you mention them, because there are quite a few peculiar racists in these three countries, that treat their compatriots poorly on account of them not being as "Germanic".

During the Franco years, and especially during the Civil War, there was a popular current of thought among some Spanish nationalists that they are the descendants of the Visigoths and Nazi Germany is a natural ally.

There are some strange people among the rich and hard working people of Northern Italy, that think that what makes them better than the Southerners is their Lombardian pedigree, or years spent under the HRE.

France is a little different - of course - but you can find similar ideas there during the war among the collaborationists. Also, BB is right that France is more Germanic in its origin than Gaulish.

Overall, I of course agree with you that Greece and Rome are the center of gravity of Western Civilization. But the Germans certainly played a bigger and bigger role as time went on.

Torq
22 Jul 2024  #101

Oh...there won't be...

*fingers crossed again*

See ya, BB! :)

there was a popular current of thought among some Spanish nationalists that they are the descendants of the Visigoths and Nazi Germany is a natural ally

This idiocy reached even Slavia, with Croats thinking they are descendants of Goths. *rolls eyes*

As for racism, I was very surprised to learn that Karl Marx was a horrible racist (especially against blacks) and considered Slavs as one of inferior races. Quite shocking, taking into account that he is a demi-God for countless leftists all over the world. 0_0

Novichok
22 Jul 2024  #102

It doesn't even have to be a personal experience.

Personal experience weighs in at 90%, in my opinion...That's why I am unable to even dislike Germans and Russians, much less hate...
If I feel anything it is the sadness that so many of them died in Stalingrad and other such places...

Why the US decided to send its very best to die in a war that was none of its business is beyond my comprehension. Yes, I am that stupid...

Today, the US, Europe, and Russia should stand united in the fight for the survival of the white race and culture.

Bobko
22 Jul 2024  #103

@Torq

I am now studying the illustrious career of Zbigniew Stonoga - thank you Kania.

Even after the very little that I have managed to read so far - I fully agree with him. The majority of Poles are absolutely anti-Polaks, traitorous b*tches, f*cking losers, galactic retards, and definitely deserve to get f*cked in the ass daily... for not voting for this man.

Wow! What a man!

Novichok
22 Jul 2024  #104

The majority of Poles are absolutely anti-Polaks, traitorous b*tches, f*cking losers, galactic retards,

The prose I like...
I have no idea who Stomoga is or was but I agree with you...you are so persuasive...No sarcasm meant.

Bobko
22 Jul 2024  #105

@Novichok
Here, enjoy. After listening to normal politicians, this is a breath of fresh air.
youtu.be/EIXlDfsFWAg

Torq
22 Jul 2024  #106

the US, Europe, and Russia should stand united

Hear, hear!

I am now studying the illustrious career of Zbigniew Stonoga

Hahahaha :D

I apologise for unleashing Stonoga here. It was uncalled for.

Gotta go. See you later, guys.

Korvinus
22 Jul 2024  #107

We are losers, because having so much, we still suffer from a deep seated inferiority complex and often behave like slaves.

You gays are the ones celebrating independance from us after a mere 2 year occupation that happened 400 years ago. Tell me about inferiority complex again?

Bobko
22 Jul 2024  #108

celebrating independance from us after a mere 2 year occupation

Almost every other normal country has an Independence Day. Russia has a strange holiday instead, called Russia Day.

Russia Day celebrates the declaration of sovereignty by the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic, from the USSR.

In effect, it celebrates our freedom from our own selves. This is why most people don't understand this holiday, and simply treat it as a free day off from work.

It would be much better if we celebrated our independence from Polish occupation.

To find another instance where Russia gained freedom from someone, we would have to go back all the way to the Mongols... so I think Poland is a better candidate.

It will also bring the two countries closer together, I think, by forcing us to examine our common history.

Torq
22 Jul 2024  #109

It will also bring the two countries closer together, I think, by forcing us to examine our common history.

Here's hoping.

Notice how Korvinus never answered the question about the reason of his hatred for Russia. It's not that he doesn't want to tell us, he simply doesn't know. Or maybe he knows there's no valid reason.

What valid reason for this kind of galactic-scale hatred might there be?

1. The partitions? It's almost ancient history, and people don't seem to hate Germany or Austria anymore, so that's not it.
2. The uprisings? Probably not as it's also ancient history; that's not it.
3. 1920? I don't think so. We won the war, so it would be strange to hold a grudge for so long after a victory; that's not it.
4. 1939? I don't think so - we don't hate the Germans anymore, and they caused incomparably more suffering than Russians, and most people don't even remember that Slovaks invaded us back then too; that's not it.
5. KatyƄ? Well, Russia apologised for it (unlike Ukraine who not only never apologised for Volyn Genocide but even celebrates the perpetrators as national heroes) so it would again be weird to hold a grudge, especially that we forgave Germans much more.
6. 1945-1989? I don't think so. It's not like Russians in the USSR were filthy rich back then and we were poor because of the "occupation". We shared in the common poverty. Let's not forget that before WW2 people were emigrating from Poland even to Romania (yes, bloody Romania!) to find better life, and it was the "communist" Poland that practically eradicated illiteracy and improved the lives of majority of Poles compared to the interwar misery. So, that's not it.

So... what the heck is it, Korvinus? Perhaps you will be so kind as to tell us.

Bobko
22 Jul 2024  #110

he simply doesn't know

Any kind of phobia, such as Russophobia, is by its very definition irrational.

Wikipedia defines it in the following terms:

A phobia is an anxiety disorder, defined by an irrational, unrealistic, persistent and excessive fear of an object or situation.

So... there you have your answer! He struggles to articulate the reason, because it is embarrassing to admit that fear is the driving factor.

Clearly Korvinus doesn't care about all the other places you mentioned, because he doesn't believe they have any capacity to meaningfully hurt Poland.

The psychology is exceedingly simple - Russia is hated by some, because it is feared. You don't fear Russia, and correspondingly don't hate it like Korvinus does.

Fear makes people say and do irrational things. This is normal, and you can't get angry at people for it. However, responsible leaders should not allow themselves to be guided by fear in planning their policies.

Torq
22 Jul 2024  #111

He struggles to articulate the reason, because it is embarrassing to admit that fear is the driving factor.

Hmm... but he claims that he's Polish. We are not famous for allowing fear to rule over us.

Some people might fear the coming war and hate Putin for the aggression, the sabre rattling, the nuclear threats etc., but notice that Korvinus claims that he has hated Russians with passion ever since his childhood...

"A world without Russia" is my childhood dream.

... when there was no reason to fear Russia. Quite the contrary - the horrible, orcish "occupational" forces left Poland smiling and waving their hands, without firing a single shot, and since then Russia until only recently has never been a threat, didn't stop us from joining NATO or the EU...

Good bye, rebyata.

... so where's the reason for fear? Where's the reason for hatred?

you can't get angry at people for it

I'm not angry, I just want to understand.

Korvinus
22 Jul 2024  #112

Any kind of phobia, such as Russophobia, is by its very definition irrational.

The Partitions in XVIIIth century and Russia claiming the Eastern lands.
The Red Army "support" during Warsaw Uprising in 1944.
Lastly, the Red Army "liberation". And Poland betrayed and enslaved by the USSR.

Bobko
22 Jul 2024  #113

@Torq

I don't know much about Korvinus, but maybe he's a former or current emigre?

Those people are quite famous for hating Russia from the comfort of London or Paris. In fact, as mentioned before, there's very few Poles living in Poland that are on this forum that spout toxic hatred of Russia. Not Pawian, not Paulina, not Gregy, and not you. But then, despite also living abroad Grunnie and Ironside seem to be fairly neutral when it comes to Russia.

However, Miloslaw can even give Maf and Neuf a run for their money.

So maybe, Korvinus's childhood was somewhere faraway from Poland.

That is, my thesis is that these persons could have become infected with a foreign strain of Russophobia, which was dictated by the political context of the places they lived in.

Hmmmmm.... Very strange indeed. We did discuss this before, how Poles on the forum never call Russians untermenschen or dog food, but foreigners do. So why indeed is Korvinus linking up with them?

Maybe his grandma was a Banderite?

Torq
22 Jul 2024  #114

The Partitions in XVIIIth century and Russia claiming the Eastern lands.

Wow! Do you hate Prussia (Germany) the same for claiming the western lands? Do you hate Austria equally for claiming our southern lands?

The Red Army "support" during Warsaw Uprising in 1944.

The Red Army didn't support the Warsaw Uprising, sure. But it was the Germans who quenched the uprising and slaughtered civilians in Wola and other parts of Warsaw. Do you hate Germans the same? In the formations that slaughtered civilians in the uprisings were Latvians, Ukrainians or even Norwegians - do you hate Latvia, Ukraine and Norway?

Lastly, the Red Army "liberation".

You would prefer that Germans stayed and nicely put us through crematoria chimneys when they were done with the Jews?

enslaved by the USSR

In six years under German occupation Polish population fell from 35 million (1939) to 23 million (1945). It took 44 years of horrible "enslavement" by the USSR for the Polish population to reach 40 million (the highest ever). Besides, I hate to quote myself but...

"It's not like Russians in the USSR were filthy rich back then and we were poor because of the "occupation". We shared in the common poverty. Let's not forget that before WW2 people were emigrating from Poland even to Romania (yes, bloody Romania!) to find better life, and it was the "communist" Poland that practically eradicated illiteracy and improved the lives of majority of Poles compared to the interwar misery."

So, you are not giving us valid reasons - you are giving us weak excuses.

these persons could have become infected with a foreign strain of Russophobia, which was dictated by the political context of the places they lived in

Interesting theory. Definitely more probable than the bullsh*t "reasons" that Korvinus gave us.

Maybe his grandma was a Banderite?

0_0
*makes the sign of the cross*

Korvinus
22 Jul 2024  #115

I"ve received 200$. And 50c extra for each anti-Russian post.

Torq
22 Jul 2024  #116

^^ That's it. I'm calling your bullsh*t. You don't hate Russia.

I expected one final, desperate "reason" that some people sometimes give, but since you didn't mention it the case is settled.

You don't hate Russia. Never did, never will.

Korvinus
22 Jul 2024  #117

I expected one final, desperate "reason" that some people sometimes give,

I'm sorry if I don't fit into your binary narrative. Politics is more complex than that.

Bobko
22 Jul 2024  #118

Haha! It's not binary... he gave you 5 or 6 different outs!

Me and Kania are sitting here, like the investigators of the Trump assassination attempt, combing over every possible motive for why you could possibly want the wholesale destruction of the Russian people and state.

Just to be clear, this is an extraordinary statement.

You put yourself in a corner, by stating that you have a literally indescribable hate of Russia, and have harbored this since childhood.

To reasonable people, these kind of statements have to be explained. Absent an explanation - you get placed in the "clueless amoeba" category. Sorry, that's how it works.

A thinking person, should be able to explain what they say.

Torq
22 Jul 2024  #119

Politics is more complex than that.

First of all, there is no place for hatred in politics. You can allow love and kindness in politics, but we all know what body part you need to have hard if your heart is soft.

In general, politics is about your country's best interest, about being an active agent in ongoing processes, about always being able to choose, about not driving yourself into the corner with silly things like hatred (especially fake hatred) or any other emotion, not burning bridges behind you and always leaving at least a little bit of space for manoeuvre. Hungary seems to understand it better than Poland.

If you say: "Ukraine is fighting our war", "I've hated Russia since I started sucking on my mother's breast", "I just want to kill orcs" blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda, you prove beyond all doubt that you should stay as far away from politics as possible. But perhaps I'm being too harsh on you - your mode of conduct is identical to that of 90% of Polish political scene. *rolls eyes*

You put yourself in a corner

You beat me to it, Bobi.

Bratwurst Boy
22 Jul 2024  #120

Maybe it has something more to do with the current events than with the past history?

If Germany would had invaded some neighbour and would threaten some more...again....the hate of the past would be there and fresh as new! Right?

Frankly I doubt that there is a true forgiveness or forgetting in the memories of peoples....they only take a backseat when the going is good...waiting to come back, any time!


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