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UK Ambassador Confirms Russia being set up by US/UK. 'Poisoning' a fabrication


SigSauer
25 Mar 2018  #61

@jon357

You can believe if the UK decided to assassinate someone in the heart of Moscow they would be reacting far more harshly than Theresa May. However, that's not going to happen, because responsible nations don't go into other countries capitols and whip up Polonium tea with a side of nerve agents with total reckless abandon.
Velund
25 Mar 2018  #62

Yes, "responsible nations" thoroughly bomb the whole city. Just like they bombed Belgrad.
SigSauer
25 Mar 2018  #63

Well, we bombed Berlin when they were committing genocide, so whats the difference?
Velund
25 Mar 2018  #64

Declared war between countries vs attack of one side in a civil war by a third party.

Imagine that China bombed Kiev for genocide of russian population in Donbass and hungarian population in Kárpátalja...
Velund
26 Mar 2018  #65

Just curious, Russia will just expel same number of polish diplomats in return, or will make some asymmetric move? )
jon357
26 Mar 2018  #66

responsible nations don't go into other countries capitols and whip up Polonium tea ... with total reckless abandon.

Spot on.

I'm rather pleased that there has been a consistent response from the world's more civilised countries. Russia have been totally wrong-footed here. It's interesting to watch how their response has changed, from airing deliberately silly excuses (like blaming Sweden, or Ms Skripal's mother-in-law) and calling for samples to 'investigate' themselves to now being very cagey due to the robustness of the response.

As today's Times said, the next step is to tackle Putin's oligarch's money and real estate which would be a response not only in London, but in Miami and New York too. This would actually hurt the people around Putin, on whose support and patronage he depends. If that is the next step and has been discussed as such, it underlines the seriousness by which Russia's crime is being taken.

I notice 'Velund' beginning to flounder; this mirrors Russia right now.
Velund
27 Mar 2018  #67

I'm rather pleased that there has been a consistent response from the world's more civilised countries.

Hm... What I see is that UK and US politicians still think that their "gentleman" reputation is still exist, and they may sometimes, cautiously, put some BS into their arguments and it will be accepted "because representatives of such respectable country as Great Britain cannot tell BS". This UK/US reputation is heavily eroded during last half century, but, IMHO, name of a man who killed it completely is Colin Powell. Now everyone know, that "proofs" shown in UN was complete and malicious BS, and (92000 to around 500000 - there is different data sources) Iraq civilians killed for nothing (except maybe some masonic dreams) together with enormous material losses is a bit too much to just say "oops" and forget about it. There is already a lot of people who will help to remember, and there will be more and more such people, taking their notes.

This was only one "episode" of many such things that was done in a last years. So, verifiable material proofs should be on hand and ready to present, if someone from UK/US or their satellites plan to open their mouth with something serious. Here we have nearly "casus belli" event, and even if current reputation of UK govt would be similar to reputation of British Empire at the end of XIX century, in would require something more that histerical words of prime minister.

As I can see, last days media put any BS said by anyone as "silly excuses of Kremlin". It was said, that a number of countries have labs, capable to produce "Foliant" project substances - and it was immediately turned by media so that Sweden was accused in making that "Novichok" agent. Newspapers now become viewspapers, and the only two allowed forms of public racism now is northcoreaphobia and russophobia.

Russia declined ultimatum and offered to switch to a mechanism, described in a OPCW convention. It includes providing samples to a country who is suspected country of origin of agent. Britain ignored this offer. Requests for consular access to a Yulia Skripal (who is Russian citizen) also was declined. So, we have only May and Johnson words, nothing more. Not enough to start jumping (but a number of countries decide otherwise - let's see how it will be ended).

Now about oligarchs and their money. I think everyone from 70+% of russians, voted for Putin on recent elections will say "thank you" to those, who will arrest money, that is so "toxic" so it was not returned to Russia during last capital amnistion. ;) Those who after government warnings decided to left their money in a jurisdictions that value commands from Washington higher than their own laws definitely deserve loss of this money. So, if someone will have problems, it hardly may blame Putin. Been warned, but prefer to ignore.

I think British govt now need a lot of money to pay for brexit obligations. They may try to confiscate it from someone, but then one more "edge" of british "gentleman" reputation will change color from shining gold to a something brown.
jon357
27 Mar 2018  #68

What I see is that UK and US politicians still think that their "gentleman" reputation is still exist

Evidently it does, since those two countries (and Germany, France, Poland, Lithuania, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Italy, the Netherlands, Estonia, Latvia, Croatia, Finland, Hungary, Sweden, Romania, Ukraine and Albania) have behaved in an exemplary (and united) way against Russian aggression The Russians however have never had any sort of decent reputation. Thy're still shielding Litvinienko's murderers.

verifiable material proofs should be on hand and ready to presen

Why would any country feel the need to present public proof of an espionage matter like Russia's attack on Skripal and his daughter in the UK. The cold hard fact that Russia is the perpetrator is not in doubt.

OPCW .... consular access to a Yulia Skripal

The OPCW are investigating. Why should Russian state officials be allowed near anyone that they have just tried (and failed) to murder?
SigSauer
27 Mar 2018  #69

@Velund

Right. Just like a decorated Chechen FSB officer killed the most prominent opposition politician in front of the Kremlin, we totally believe he acted alone. Jon beat me to the punch in pointing out 16 nations(most with better economies and higher standards of living than Russia) are standing in solidarity against Russia's Cold War spy games it wants to play in our western capitals.

It's fine if you want to sing the ills of 'the West' and democracy, that just means you'll have to find other places for your upper middle class to send their kids to university, and launder your money with expensive London addresses.

We build the societies everyone wants to live in, while you barbarians legalized domestic violence last year.
Velund
27 Mar 2018  #70

Thy're still shielding Litvinienko's murderers.

Litvinenko case is an example of the same approach. Massive "shelling" in media well before any official investigation results, then "secret proofs" showing that "highly likely" someone from Russia is responsible.

And you should take into account - extradition of a russian citizen is impossible under current russian laws. Just like in Israel, and a number of other countries. And there is zero chances that someone will take "secret proofs that cannot be released" into account if request to arrest someone come by Interpol channels. Period. Any legal action is possible only with proofs, that may be presented to officials and used in a court. There was some british stupid that told that Russia should retrospectively change their laws to be able to fullfill british requests, it sounded really funny.

Why should Russian state officials be allowed near anyone that they have just tried (and failed) to murder?

If you don't need any answers - do not spend time asking questions.
And there is still no ANY proofs that Russia is somewhat related to this case. So, formally speaking, you are spreading pure slander now.

The cold hard fact that Russia is the perpetrator is not in doubt.

There is no such fact, of course. This is just a belief formed by the media and not backed by anything other than words of british top officials. Not much difference with Powell case - and there was at least a test tube with some white powder (someone now talk it was salt, while others say it was detergent), while here is nothing at all.
SigSauer
27 Mar 2018  #71

Secret proofs? The evidence in the Litvinenko case was quite public you bumbling Moskali, your agents, one of which is now in the Duma, left a God damn radioactive bread crumb trail across London! FFS, from the tone of your posts I'd say you worked at 55 Savushkina, but I'd be giving you far too much credit at that point. Poshol na hoi. Poka
jon357
27 Mar 2018  #72

Litvinenko case

Is proven murder by the Russian state.

And there is still no ANY proofs

There is enough proof to satisfy Europe's major democracies, as well as the United States.

from the tone of your posts I'd say you worked at 55 Savushkina, but I'd be giving you far too much credit

Quite. In this case, it looks like he is just an apologist for Russia's crimes. This is nothing new.
Velund
27 Mar 2018  #73

There is enough proof to satisfy Europe's major democracies, as well as the United States.

It is not enough anymore just to satisfy United states and few their pets (let's name things correctly).

20+ countries blindly followed Britain and stepped into same substance. For now, Britain trying to say that it is apple jam. Highly likely, it will be turned out that it is plain sh*t. Let's see what will be further.
Slavictor
29 Mar 2018  #74

The Pentagon has spent at least $70 million on military experiments involving tests with deadly viruses and chemical agents at Porton Down - the UK military laboratory near the city of Salisbury. Porton Down is just 13 km from where Skripal and daughter were found.

naturalblaze.com/2018/03/nerve-agent-attack-70-million-pentagon-program.html
jon357
29 Mar 2018  #75

just to satisfy United states and

Most civilised European countries, including Poland, Germany and France, are certainly satisfied by the truth; that Russia carried out the attack, and not for the first time.

They got away lightly after murdering Litvinienko in London. Now it is acknowledged that their chemical weapons attack on civilians in Europe has overstepped the mark, and left them with very few friends indeed.
Velund
30 Mar 2018  #76

are certainly satisfied by the truth

Truth? Can you prove this? Presentation slides, that was leaked from UK embassy briefing, and that was used as a "highly likely evidence", does not contained any verifiable facts, and contained direct lie (in relation to Russia-Georgia conflict in 2008).

Concerning Litvinenko case - it is (was?) hard to accuse someone while almost all the evidence is hidden from public. It started from pre-inquest review hearing 13 October 2011 at St Pancras Coroner's Court, that was closed for the public and media, and continued almost the same way. Coroner inquest papers was mostly classified. Either there was nothing to show at all, either it was too weak as evidence to be shown to general public.
Ironside
30 Mar 2018  #77

Truth?

Doesn't really matter. Russia and Putin deserve it anyway for all stuff they did and got away with.
Velund
30 Mar 2018  #78

I.e., for their mere existence? ;)
Velund
30 Mar 2018  #79

The Wolf and the Lamb
from The Fables of Ivan Krylov (c.1769 - 1844)

Always are the weak at fault before the strong.
In history we hear a host of examples,
But history we are not writing:
Here is how they tell of it in Fables.

russianuniverse.org/2014/11/16/ivan-krylov-wolf-lamb
Crow
30 Mar 2018  #80

Today`s Britain is rather pathetic. I heard that Medvedev likes British poetry. But would it be enough for salvation of Britain. I hope so.
Slavictor
30 Mar 2018  #81

What's this? They're alive?
twitter.com/MarkSleboda1/status/979440663925272577

The twitter account holder has kindly offered his public (hover over his username) email regarding this tweet in order that readers may directly address their arguments and comments to him.




jon357
31 Mar 2018  #82

Can you prove this?

I don't need to. Enough of Britain's friends and neighbours (including Poland) are satisfied with the evidence presented to them and have acted appropriately against Russia.

It's interesting taht Russia is really floundering now; they misread the situation entirely and have been totally wrongfooted on this one.

Litvinenko

Concerning Russia's murder of Litvinienko, also a chemical weapons attack on European soil, the matter was proven beyond doubt.

Russia has very few friends left in the free world.
Velund
31 Mar 2018  #83

Enough of Britain's friends and neighbours (including Poland) are satisfied with the evidence presented

You will have to prove it, otherwise British politicians will be finally regarded as clowns even in countries that joined last "flash mob" with expelling diplomats. Maybe current british top official tried to solve their problems by exchanging reputation of Britain to a some possible tactical victory (questionable victory, of course, conflict they managed to create is still far from their end)... But on a longer run it will be a disaster for a Britain.

"British scientist" is already almost a synonym of "idiot in the lab". "British politician" soon will be nearly the same, but much worse.

Russia has very few friends left in the free world.

Do you think Britain have friends? They had some vassals, that is.

PS: Where can I look at complete coroner inquest documents concerning Litvinenko case?
jon357
31 Mar 2018  #84

You will have to prove it,

No I won't. Enough of the free world is satisfied that Russia is responsible for attacking the person in Britain sing Russian chemical weapons that they had threatened to attack in Britain using Russian chemical weapons.

Russia's hysterical denials and attempts to shift the blame would be hilarious if it weren't for two of their victims still being in hospital.

They've really called it wrong this time, and doubtless whoever advised Putin to do this is languishing in the Gulag. If he is still alive.
Velund
31 Mar 2018  #85

No I won't.

I understood... You can't... But, you need to follow british tradition.

Even the "king of propaganda" was impressed by british ability to lie without slightest changes on the face...

I quote...

"The English are well known throughout the world for their lack of political scruples. They are experts at the art of hiding their misdeeds behind a facade of virtue. They have been at it for centuries, and it has become such a part of their nature that they hardly notice it any longer. They carry on with such a pious expression and deadly seriousness that they even convince themselves that they are the exemplars of political virtue. They do not admit their hypocrisy to themselves. It never happens that one Englishman says to another with a wink or a smile "We don't want to fool ourselves, do we now." They do not only behave as if they were the model of piety and virtue - they really believe that they are. That is both amusing and dangerous."

PS: What about Litvinenko case papers?
jon357
31 Mar 2018  #86

You can't

Just as you can't provide proof that Russia didn't.

The proof provided at governmental level is however enough to satisfy all relevant parties to a sufficient degree for them to take serious action.

The English are

The British, not the English. And of course the rest of the free world who regard Russia's chemical weapons attack as a. proven beyonf doubt, and b. serious enough to take significant action about. Nobody believes Russia.

Interesting that a Putin apologist quotes Goebbels. As we say in Polish, kurwa kurwie łba nie urwiei...

What's left of the World Cup will be interesting.
Velund
31 Mar 2018  #87

Just as you can't provide proof that Russia didn't.

You still not prove us that you are not f*cking your sister then, can you remember? Either there praesumptio innocentiae still exist, and it is Britain task to to find a person who done it and prove that it is guilty and then prove envolvement of Russia, either you are guilty for incest.

The British, not the English.

I'm not authorized to change anything in a written work of someone else. And such english translation is from Calvin college archives.

Joseph was a son of a b*tch, without doubt. But it was really smart men. It was very funny to see how their diary records about russians changed from 1938 to 1945...
jon357
1 Apr 2018  #88

not f*cking your sister then, can you remember?

This exactly mirrors the frantic and hysterical denials coming out of Russia right now, including from the worm Putin's pathetic mouthpiece Lavrov.

Joseph was a son of a b*tch,

Absolutely evil.

It was very funny to see how their diary records about russians changed from 1938 to 1945...

Just as Russia gets more and more worked up as they realise they are now utterly on their own with a fragile economy and both truth and decency against them
Velund
1 Apr 2018  #89

This exactly mirrors the frantic and hysterical denials coming out of Russia

Not, of course. This is just to remember you that we have the same presumption of innocence for everyone, and there is no chances to enforce different justice norms for someone not convenient for your master.

You still translate your wet dreams about falling Russia, but unable to understand what this case actually done inside Russia and how it will reflected into their foreign politics. I think you will be very disappointed once you get more information.
jon357
1 Apr 2018  #90

presumption of innocence for everyone

Presumption of innocence until proven guilty. Russia has been proven guilty beyond all reasonble doubt.

As I said before (and this is worth repeating ad infinitum), the world's major democracies are satisfied with the conclusive evidence that has been presented to them and have punished Russia accordingly.

No matter how you may dislike the cold hard truth.

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